Age of Sayyidah A'ishah when she got married to our Beloved Prophet peace be upon him

Discussion in 'Seerat ar-Rasul' started by Umar99, Mar 9, 2018.

Draft saved Draft deleted
  1. Umar99

    Umar99 Veteran

  2. Umar99

    Umar99 Veteran

    Tawbah was not for disagreeing but rather for any disrespect I may have done, just because I was a Salafī does not mean I am still disrespectful to those worthy of respect, by the blessing of Allah I have become a Sunnī and am now aware of who is to be respected.

    I agree fully that taking Aĥadīth out of context is a trait of Salafīs and is one of their favourite tactics to trick people, however I thought that since this is not an elaborate issue of Fiqh then not much commentary/explanation will be required. Including the name of the chapters would have done the job, I thought.

    Also in my other comment I did mention the rulings that have been derived from this matter, there is also the ruling of permissibility for dolls in regards to young girls prior to to the age of puberty which would have been useful to mention.

    It isn't a matter of Ĥarām or Ĥalāl, that it can be accorded to strictness, it is a matter of strong evidence of a certain fact.

    Also the reason why I go for stricter opinions is also for the same reason, due to the strong evidences and taking the route of precaution and safety, as they say "better safe than sorry".

    And yes that is a Ĥadīth which is not to be taken explicitly and literally either, in fact it is more important regarding the Ĥadīth you posted as people can seriously twist and misinterpret this Ĥadīth to be used as justifications for Ĥarām.
  3. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    we should all do tawbah everyday, but disagreeing with a scholarly opinion [when it is not a serious issue] is not a sin that you should do tawbah from. regardless, my apologies for some harsh comments.

    see brother, there are explanations for these hadith. stating hadith and taking it explicitly and literally is not the right method - unless fuqaha/commentaries have explained it in those words. besides, you tend to go for the more stricter opinions (and i assume is because of the zeal of youth).

    let us remind ourselves of this hadith often:[here cited from riyad al-salihin]

    riyad 636.png

    wa billahi't tawfiq.
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2018
  4. Umar99

    Umar99 Veteran

    There is no old habit involved, you have got the wrong end of the stick, I did not mean any disrespect of Muftī Zāhid, I just did not understand why there was such a vast difference between his statement and the Aĥadīth, I have a lot of respect for Muftī Zāhid and benefit a lot from his works and website, as I also do for you.

    Perhaps I may have worded it incorrectly and if so then I apologise and do Tawbah but I assure you, it is not as you think it to be.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 29, 2018
  5. Umar99

    Umar99 Veteran

    It is strange and acting like a Salafi to not blindly accept the personal opinion of a scholar? You do realise he is not infallible and is able to make mistakes?

    If you do not agree that he did not contradict the authentic Aĥadīth then you must agree he has contradicted the vast majority of Úlamā in this regard, taking into consideration that the Fuqahā used these narrations to prove that a father is allowed to marry off his daughter younger than the age of puberty without her consent, all 4 Madh’habs are in agreement upon this.

    With all due respect to Muftī Zāhid, this is a major difference, not a slight difference and it seems to be a mistake on his behalf, I am not insinuating he had evil purposes or deliberate misinformation however it cannot be denied this is not the view of the majority and is a questionable opinion.
  6. Bazdawi

    Bazdawi Active Member

    strange that you seem to be acting like a salafi - that is, quoting ahadith then implying anyone who says something slightly different is 'contradicting' authentic narrations without respecting the persons credentials or scholarship.

    unless you know the rules of ifta or are a major scholar in your own right, you should keep such opinions to yourself. at the very least, you should ask mufti sahib why he gave the answer in the manner that he did before accusing scholars of 'contradicting ahadith'
  7. Umar99

    Umar99 Veteran

    Strange that Muftī Zāhid Hussain has contradicted the authentic Aĥadīth on this topic.

    حَدَّثَنِي عُبَيْدُ بْنُ إِسْمَاعِيلَ، حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو أُسَامَةَ، عَنْ هِشَامٍ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ، قَالَ تُوُفِّيَتْ خَدِيجَةُ قَبْلَ مَخْرَجِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم إِلَى الْمَدِينَةِ بِثَلاَثِ سِنِينَ، فَلَبِثَ سَنَتَيْنِ أَوْ قَرِيبًا مِنْ ذَلِكَ، وَنَكَحَ عَائِشَةَ وَهْىَ بِنْتُ سِتِّ سِنِينَ، ثُمَّ بَنَى بِهَا وَهْىَ بِنْتُ تِسْعِ سِنِينَ‏.‏

    صحيح البخاري, كتاب مناقب الأنصار, باب تَزْوِيجُ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم عَائِشَةَ وَقُدُومُهَا الْمَدِينَةَ وَبِنَاؤُهُ بِهَا

    حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ يُوسُفَ، حَدَّثَنَا سُفْيَانُ، عَنْ هِشَامٍ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ، عَنْ عَائِشَةَ ـ رضى الله عنها ـ أَنَّ النَّبِيَّ صلى الله عليه وسلم تَزَوَّجَهَا وَهْىَ بِنْتُ سِتِّ سِنِينَ، وَأُدْخِلَتْ عَلَيْهِ وَهْىَ بِنْتُ تِسْعٍ، وَمَكَثَتْ عِنْدَهُ تِسْعًا‏.

    كتاب النكاح, باب إِنْكَاحِ الرَّجُلِ وَلَدَهُ الصِّغَارَ, لِقَوْلِهِ تَعَالَى: {وَاللاَّئِي لَمْ يَحِضْنَ} فَجَعَلَ عِدَّتَهَا ثَلاَثَةَ أَشْهُرٍ قَبْلَ الْبُلُوغِ

    حَدَّثَنَا حَفْصُ بْنُ عَمْرٍو، حَدَّثَنَا عُمَرُ بْنُ حَبِيبٍ الْقَاضِي، قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا هِشَامُ بْنُ عُرْوَةَ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ، عَنْ عَائِشَةَ، قَالَتْ كُنْتُ أَلْعَبُ بِالْبَنَاتِ وَأَنَا عِنْدَ، رَسُولِ اللَّهِ ـ صلى الله عليه وسلم ـ فَكَانَ يُسَرِّبُ إِلَىَّ صَوَاحِبَاتِي يُلاَعِبْنَنِي ‏.‏

    سنن ابن ماجه, كتاب النكاح

    وَحَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ بْنُ حُمَيْدٍ، أَخْبَرَنَا عَبْدُ الرَّزَّاقِ، أَخْبَرَنَا مَعْمَرٌ، عَنِ الزُّهْرِيِّ، عَنْ عُرْوَةَ، عَنْ عَائِشَةَ، أَنَّ النَّبِيَّ صلى الله عليه وسلم تَزَوَّجَهَا وَهْىَ بِنْتُ سَبْعِ سِنِينَ وَزُفَّتْ إِلَيْهِ وَهِيَ بِنْتُ تِسْعِ سِنِينَ وَلُعَبُهَا مَعَهَا وَمَاتَ عَنْهَا وَهِيَ بِنْتُ ثَمَانَ عَشْرَةَ ‏‏

    صحيح مسلم, كتاب النكاح, باب تَزْوِيجِ الأَبِ الْبِكْرَ الصَّغِيرَةَ ‏
  8. Lonely_Mountain

    Lonely_Mountain Active Member

    Ah ofcourse, I understand what you mean now
    thank u
  9. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

  10. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    yes. but for issues of such import, it is best to rely on hadith commentators. a lot has been researched by great ulama.

    learning through personal research, is not the same as presenting personal research without proper learning.

    Allah ta'ala knows best.
    Ghulam Ali likes this.
  11. snaqshi

    snaqshi Active Member

    بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
    AlHamdolillah I stick to what is excepted orthodoxy and if its an area that is not clear I asked the shuyukh/ulema that i have access to.
  12. Aqib alQadri

    Aqib alQadri Veteran

    personal (independent) research will land you in trouble; just like it does for ahle-hadeeth (ghair muqallid).

    you need a teacher, a guide: once you have mastered an acceptable level, you can study further.

    to be safe, stick to what has already been researched: our scholars (right from the time of the Sahabah), have collectively, already spent billions of man-hours doing that; they have left behind a legacy that many of us, in our entire lifetime, can not even read through.
    snaqshi likes this.
  13. snaqshi

    snaqshi Active Member

    بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

    When you research you learn at the same time goes hand in hand, but since you mention learning we are not all as fortunate as your brother when it come to learning the deen. Instead of making sly digs at people you should be thankful that Allah granted you his great Favour and Mercy that he granted to an excellent opportunity and level of Islamic study, that most people like me never get light of day.

    Since you made your comments towards me let me adress you with a small insight into my own experience of the deen and the state our Islamic scholarship through my eye (not that it will make you any more "humble" or "sincere").

    When my mother in rolled me at our local sunni "brailvi" madarsah, in the 5 years i was there we had between 20-30 (I forgot how many in total we would get a new one nearly every couple of month), not of them were bothered in teaching us anything even reading the qur'an correctly. My mums friend told here to send us to the deoband masjid since they had a great, high kevel of education and a very good syllabus, my mum told here that i would rather kill him (my son) first then send him to learn from a guustaakhi rasool.

    When I was mid way through secondary school I did not bother going to the mosque, sice in my eyes i was not getting any benefit. then when i had desire to learn the deen. I approach several local scholars (alim) that i knew asking them if they could give me some time even if was just 30 minutes a week to study qur'an and fiqh, most said they were to busy and a few asked how much i could afford to give them, I said money would not be an issue if they taught me privately I would give them whatever they wanted within reason (someone asking for money for their time, effort etc i do not have an issue with) the amounts they were asking was rediculous. I spoke with another brother in a town near by he said that their imaam was really good he might give me time, so i went to see him (another sunni brailvi mosque) I explained him the situation that i wish to learn the deen, he said sorry i do not have the time. I learnt afterwards that in the madarasah they don't have more then 50 kids. whilst the deobani centre down the road has 800 kids. I went to another alim in the same town, same answer there to didn't have the time.

    Then by Allah grace i went to a mehfil at a brothers home where there was a scholar attending, i spoke with him he said he would be happy to teach me but he had 6 months left before he was to return back to his country of origin, may allah bless that person he was true to his word, even when he was sick and i mean vomitting etc because i traveled to see him for study he gave me time.

    then i met one shaykh may Allah bless his soul, i spoke at length he said to me that ahle sunnat alims were "tillay" when it come to tadrees and that where i lived in the uk i would be hard pushed to find any sunni scholar who would give me anytime to learn the deen, he said to me (these are his words) you are better off getting books yourself and studying yourself, and what you do not know ask and beg and ask until you learn, no one will help you in these coming days...I could not read one word of urdu, the next year i met him he brought for me some basic urdu teaching books (5 in all) and several books such as towzeh ul aqaid (maulana As shaykh Shah Ruknuddin al Alvi naqshbandi), deeni mUSTAPHA (Shaykh ul hadith Muhadithi Lahore Sayyed Mahmood Rizvi), bahari shariat and Tafsir ul Hasanaat (which is amazing) etc I taught myself urdu and tarted to read those books and others i accumulated on the way. even when i had a masalah and ask our local imaam shaykh etc they haven't the time to explain, so if i seem a bit up tight and crude at time when you make such comments, I make nay excuses and neither do i try to point fingers at people or call them "stupid", "ignorant" or "trolls". At least i have an excuse, but try not to hide behind it, whats yours?

    atarkakom fi amanillah
    ch khan likes this.
  14. Lonely_Mountain

    Lonely_Mountain Active Member

    Sorry I might have misunderstood but can't one learn through personal research? Like don't they both occur at the same time and have an interdependent relationship maybe ?
  15. Aqib alQadri

    Aqib alQadri Veteran

    This is a tad confusing.

    If the mother of the believers was born in 605 CE, and she passed away 50 years after Hijrah, she would have lived for 68 years (or 67 years). Which means she lived only 39 years, after the passing away of the Holy Prophet (blessings and peace be upon him). Nevertheless, her demise would still be during the reign of Hazrat Muawiyyah (may Allah be pleased with him)

    Most historians agree that she passed away on 18 Ramadan, 58 Hijri. It can be safely assumed that this data is more reliable than the date of her birth. Hence, as per Mufti Zahid sahibs calculations, she would be 75-76 years old - he however states that she died 8 years earlier, at age 67-68.

    It seems more plausible that the consummation took place when Syedah Aaishah was 12 or 13 years old - which was the norm in those days.

    Kindly see a small comparison of the data attached.

    My paternal grand-mother and also my mom's aunty (may Allah have mercy upon them both) - told me that they got married when they were just 12-13. And they became mothers very soon after that.

    This is 13 Centuries, after Hijrah.

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 17, 2014
  16. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    then, you should stop personal research for the time being and begin to do some learning.

    fi amanillah
    Ghulam Ali likes this.
  17. snaqshi

    snaqshi Active Member

    بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

    That is a very good summery of the situation in the UK, its not an isolated issue its all over the uk. As i have said in other post braadri comes first rather then aqeeda, and it has caused a schism, which has inevitably effected the quality and level of tadrees in our sunni masaajids especially in the UK.

    Our faith should be based upon sound proofs and certainty, where there is uncertainty we must adopt the middle ground since our aaqa sarkari madina sallahu alayhi was salam said in many hadeeth that safety was with the middle way (al jame3atu rehmaton wal firqatu azaabon), wqe can be in the middle without being too hard or too soft yet not comprimising our aqeeda (thats my position anyway). We must do tasdeeq on what is been established as kufr and draw others through good naseeha and knowledge ewven those that are sat on the fence without pointing finger, as we should be careful and understand that if you point 1 finger 3 will point back at you.
  18. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    ok. my sincere apologies for letting my cynicism get to you. i couldn't put a few aspects of your online persona together and this post helps explain things somewhat. i don't say this with any sympathy or pity. i say it respectfully, man to man, because your post didn't sound like crocodile tears or something. tbh, i liked this post of yours.

    this is a shame really. if you make a sincere effort to learn deen, they shouldn't turn you down.

    but then again, going by the posts of brothers in the uk, a big chunk of "Sunni" masaajid aren't really doing any favors to non-dyslexic people either. the only people they seem to be doing favors to is to their uk neighborhood chums hailing from the same village back home and imported relatives, whether they're members of the mosques committes, or khateebs, or a part of the congregations! as always, there are exceptions where mosques actually work towards teaching people deen and how to work for it, as opposed to running fan clubs with the rabble-rousing against deviants only for good measure and aimed at keeping the fan club and mawlana sab/pir sab's chair going on for as long as possible!
    snaqshi likes this.
  19. snaqshi

    snaqshi Active Member

    بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

    sallam alaykom brother, Your question is fair and valid one, the post below in part is my own personal reasearch and rest is summery i have picked up from others ( i have no shame in saying that or hidding the fact). The last point of my post "Bikr" that you refer to was giving to me by a palestinian brother from jeruslam who i have not spoken with in a while, we debate together with christians on the matter of christianity.

    Regarding your curiosity about "my short cuts" well I am diyslexic and suffered from stammers when i was younger have no shame in hiding that fact too.

    When our own ahle sunnat masaaajids let people down like me regarding teaching us the deen I am humble enough to be thankful that Allah azza wa jal who granted me so much mercy in allowing me to be in the sohbet of great alims of the deen, that i was able to know ahle sunnat aqeedah and have enough akhlaaq and manners to show others respect and humility that was not offered and is not) offered to people.

    So i do not make any excuses for being wrong if I am wrong alHamdolillah my Allah grant me the toufeeq to be humble enought to except, make touba and be on a better way and neither do I seek any sympothy since on the day of judgement i will have to account for my words and actions and they will be no tea and sympothy on that day.
    AbdalQadir likes this.
  20. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    @snaqshi - is the above post in english your own research or the summary of your research, or something you just picked up from the net somewhere?

    you intrigue me!

    on the one hand, you (supposedly?) explain the difference between "bikr" and "thayyib"

    on the other hand, you have left an annoying trail of "daman barakatom aliyya" all over this forum; and you address a man (Aqib Qadri) as "ilayki" (in the same post i linked)!

    i'm just curious if you are actually aware of what you type. you might be using your own version of mobile messaging short cuts like gr8, 'coz, u c it, etc. - but i doubt it.

Share This Page