are these quotes true ?

Discussion in 'Bickering' started by Mohammad Hassan Raza, Mar 17, 2010.

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  1. So faqeerkhan, these proofs must be enough to suufice u .. or u need some more.. Why don't u urserlf check them..?
  2. sunnistudent

    sunnistudent Veteran

    A deobandi was recently caught while fabricating a statement by half quoting it. Below is the complete discussion found in Fatwa Radhwiyya which I am giving in red font.The part in blue is the only part which deobandi translated into English.

    [FONT='Times New Roman','serif'] In the English translation, the translation of deobandi is in blue and complete translation is in red font.[/FONT]
    [FONT='Times New Roman','serif'][/FONT]
    [FONT='Times New Roman','serif'][/FONT]
    Imam Ahmed Raza Khan writes:

    Kufr No 7, (Book name) Yak Rozi, page 145 (written by founder of wahabism/ deobandism in India, Ismaeel Dehlvi).

    (Ismaeel dehlvi writes) “We (deobandis/ wahabis) do not consider lie to be Muhaal (impossible) for Allah because it is not outside the qudrah (power) of Allah to create any incidence and inform about that accordingly to angels and prophets otherwise we will have to accept that the qudrah (power) of human beings is more than the power of Allah.”

    Imam Ahmed Raza Khan now comments:

    From this argument (of Ismail dehalvi) it is clear that it
    means that any thing which we human beings can do must also be possible for the lord which includes eating, drinking, sleeping, excreting, urinating, walking, sinking, dying etc."Hence this ugly statement (of ismail dehalvi) contains so many kufr that it can not be counted”.

    Please note how this deobandi has emphasized the words, excreting, urinating (by using bold font).

    By doing this the purpose of this deobandi was to show that these words are not worth being mentioned! Little did he realize that his imam, ismail dehalvi said that Allah can do all these things otherwise we human will be more powerful than Allah !( astagfirullah)

    Today we can see how a deobandi has benifited from the writing of Ala hazrat and he also considers all these actions to be wrong when attributed to the power of Allah. But he did show his deobandi colours when he did not translate this part:Hence this ugly statement (of ismail dehalvi) contains so many kufr that it can not be counted.

    Now see the complete urdu discussion. The deobandi only translated the part written in blue font.

    کفریہ ۷: یکروزی ص ۱۴۵: لانسلم کہ کذب مذکور محال بمعنی مسطور باشد چہ مقدمہ قضیہ غیر مطابقہ للواقع والقائے آں برملٰئک و انبیاء خارج از قدرت الہیہ نیست والالازم آید کہ قدرت انسانی ازید ازقدرت ربانی باشد ۲؎۔

    اللہ تعالٰی کے لئے مذکور کذب کوہم محال نہیں مانتے کیونکہ واقع کے خلاف کوئی قضیہ وخبر بنانا اور اس کو فرشتوں اور انبیاء پر القاء کرنا اللہ تعالٰی کی قدرت سے خارج نہیں ورنہ لازم آئیگا کہ انسانی قدرت اللہ تعالٰی کی قدرت سے زاید ہوجائے۔ (ت)

    (۲؎ رسالہ یکروزی (فارسی) فارقی کتب خانہ ملتان ص۱۷)

    اس میں صاف تصریح ہے کہ جو کچھ آدمی اپنے لئے کرسکتاہے وہ سب خدائے پاک کی ذات پر بھی رواہے جس میں کھانا پینا، سونا، پاخانا پھرنا، پیشاب کرنا، چلنا، ڈوبنا، مرنا، سب کچھ داخل ۔ لہذا اس قول خبیث کے کفریات حد شمار سے خارج

    Standard Deobandi belief

    Afaal e kabeeha(bad acts) ko Qudrat e Qadeema Haq Taala Shanahu say kiun kar khaarij keh saktay hainl(

    Al Jahd Al Muqeel,page 41, by Mahmoodul Hasan Al Deobandi,Published by Maktaba Madniyya Urdu Bazar Lahore)


    [FONT='Times New Roman','serif']“How can we say that it is out of the power of Allah that , He cannot perform bad acts[/FONT]
  3. sherkhan

    sherkhan Veteran

    Joker FK is at it again. He fled another thread when cornered. Haven't we seen many like him, who run when they are stumped for answers and then they resurface to face another humiliation.

    I'm not sure why mods give long rope to such characters. Some innocent brothers sincerely want to engage in ilmi discussion with fools. You can bring a donkey to water and you can't make him drink!
  4. chisti-raza

    chisti-raza Veteran

    This is due to the fact that they have been extracted from Fatawah Radhiwiyya in that order. Topics are generally classed within the same volume, etc...Take a look at Munyatul Labeeb annit Tasreehi bi yadil Habeeb [1] and you will find that the Ahadith in the treatise do not commence with the number 1. I wonder what you would try to bring up next...all in the guise of sincere confusion [sic].

    Anyway, enough of you. I must commend the brothers at AlaHazratNetwork for the work that they are doing. It really is a painstaking task to extract the books/tracts in that manner and to thereafter render them in their current format.

    [1] Find it yourself.
  5. Ridwi

    Ridwi Well-Known Member

    asalamu alaykum

    if i am correct both the books were scanned from a volume of fatawa razawiyyah shareef thats why they started from the pages 200+.

    And who is this guy Nasaruddin because to me he ain't no sunni, beghayrat deobandi [mods remove that link]
  6. sunnistudent

    sunnistudent Veteran

    Let us analyze what you wrote.

    Your first query

    Then you said

    Can you see how you have chaned the book name? Now, if you say it is present in Dama e bagh subhan subboh, then please provide the referece. You are well aware that book is online.

    Then you said

    Tell me , is this not a sign of confusion?

    You first asked , whether the quotes are present in Subhan as Subuh, then you cast your doubt saying it might be present in Daman e Bagh e subhan e subuh and then to refute your own clain you said:

    I am sure you know Imam Ahmed Raza Khan and Naseeruddin Qadri are two different personality.

    If you wish you can start a new thread in which you can bring forth deobandi argument that the quotes of their akabir are taken out of context. I shall do my best to give interepretation of deobandi scholars.

    Brother , who said that? And will you be able to scan the old edition and the new printed edition to show that things are missing?

    Just for your knowledge, I do have access to manuscripts of Imam Ahmed Raza Khan's work.
  7. faqeerkhan

    faqeerkhan Guest

    Someone please explain why the two books Subhaan Subbooh and Daman e bagh which are uploaded start from page number 200+ where are the first pages where the quote is supposed to be there ?

    Daman e bagh starts from page 254 or something and subhan subuuh starts from 270 ? where are the first 100s of pages ? why is it missing ?
  8. faqeerkhan

    faqeerkhan Guest

    interesting, are you sure those quotes are not present in the other book called
    دامان باغ سبحن السبوح
    Daman e bagh subhan subbooh

    Those quotes and many such quotes are present in a book written by Naseer uddin Qadri which has been translated and uploaded on the internet

    Getting very confusing now.

    Barelwis accuse Deobandis
    Deobandis say: out of context or misquote or wrong translation/interpretation

    Deobandis accuse Barelwis
    Barelwis say quotes not present in the new printed edition.
  9. sunnistudent

    sunnistudent Veteran

    Brother, I replied to this on some other forum earlier.

    Who ever has given you this quote , please ask him to show this in Subhan as Subuh.
  10. faqeerkhan

    faqeerkhan Guest

    can someone verify if these quotes are present in the book
    Alahazrat's Books > Books of Alahazrat > Sub’ĥān as-Subbūĥ án Kadhibi Áybin Maqbūĥ

    "A woman is capable of committing fornication. Then according to the opinion of your leader and teacher, it is necessary that your God too should be capable of committing fornication - otherwise the prostitutes of the brothers of the Deobandi's would laugh at Him and say: 'How do you claim for Godhead? You are not capable of doing which even we can do?' This naturally implies that your God must possess a female sexual organ - otherwise where will be the sexual intercourse?" (Ahmad Raza Khan in his Subhan al-Subbuh. P. 142)

    "Barahin-e-Qati'a, the work of Gangohi, is DIRTIER THAN URINE, and full of unbelief. If anyone does not believe this (statement) is an atheist!" (Subhan as-Subbuh, p. 134)

    or it is forgeries or tampered in Sub’ĥān as-Subbūĥ án Kadhibi Áybin Maqbūĥ

    I tried to search here but the page numbers don't match.

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