associating with innovators

Discussion in 'Tasawwuf / Adab / Akhlaq' started by Aqdas, Jul 11, 2011.

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  1. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    and there is no scope to claim that 'we are sufis' and we take the approach of tolerance and our speech and writing is 'soft' and 'inclusive'. this is pure rubbish to fool the masses.

    it's amazing that they will find 101 excuses for the deobandis yet when a sunni adopts the stance that is called for by the shari'a, that is, to not have dealings with deobandis, not even a single argument is entertained.

    the quote from imam yaHya ibn ma'yin is one of the best we have had on this forum. it is here.
  2. Wadood

    Wadood Veteran

    I think the designation 'softer Sunni' is a misnomer. Because that might imply Sunnis who follow shari'ah are non-soft Sunnis.

    Sunnis who follow shari'ah are actually "Kattar Sunnis" [staunch Sunni, lovers of Habeeb salAllahu alayhi wa alihi wa sallam]

    I would call those people instead as shady bid'yis. I would not call them Sunni at all. Why? Because honestly, they know what they are doing and saying. Da'wa has been given to them too. The truth is manifest, and falsehood is manifest to them. After all they claim to be scholars or knowledgeable about Din.
  3. Wadood

    Wadood Veteran

    minhaj ul quran makes their children wear ties in junior high to secondary schools, rather than sunnah dress. The attitude in inculcated.
  4. Wadood

    Wadood Veteran

    And think about the reasons why these softer Sunnis have this reality.

    I will give you one:

    1) Its the university secular educational institutions that COVER the Islamic World, sponsored by educational programs on massive scales, supported by UN, IMF development programs, foreign debts that the countries owe.

    Pakistanis, Bangladeshis all have secular universities, or those based on the western model, a remnant.

    Punjab University from Lahore has like 400,000 students and millions of alumni all over Punjab province. Hollywood, lollywood, bollywood, and tv programs prevail on the mindsets. Its the TV.

    All institutions in Iran are as such. And now in Afghanistan as well.

    What do you expect?
  5. Wadood

    Wadood Veteran

    I agree with what aqdas and kuttar have written, but brother Abdal Qadir has hit the bullzeye.

    What brother Abdal Qadir says IS the reality. Them being harsher to Sunnis protesting and lenient to innovators talking is a consequence of the point brother Abdal Qadir has made.

    Think about it. Where does Dr Tahir's arguments stem from?
  6. kattarsunni

    kattarsunni Veteran

  7. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    perhaps they should take a look at what the imam of sufis, hasan basri, said about innovators. do people today know islam better than this student of sayyidina ali?

    what about the advice of rasulAllah sallAllahu 'alaihi wa sallam: 'not sit with them, not salute them, nor attend their funerals'?

    tasawwuf without shari'a is deviance and the latter says that we have no dealings with bid'yis.

    "scholars" whose attitude towards rafidis and deobandis causes their blind followers to have love for these innovators are misguided and misguiding. top of the list is tahir minhaji who loves to pray behind deobandis and so too his followers.

    it is up to them what they do but one thing they must admit is that this is not the way taught by the qur'an, sunnah and our predecessors. those who abstain from sitting with bid'yis are following shari'a and those who love them aren't. simple as that.
  8. kattarsunni

    kattarsunni Veteran

    People who only emphasise their tariqa and shaykh but ignore aquida and fiqh issues.

    In fact they consider it tasawuf to be soft to gustakhs swell.
  9. Abu Aleshba

    Abu Aleshba Active Member

    Assalamo Alaikum

    Forgive my ignorance but what is a 'saturday sufi?'

  10. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    That - and they're harsher to Muslims than they are to kafirs.
  11. ghulam-e-raza

    ghulam-e-raza Well-Known Member

    Soona Jungal Raat Andheri Chaayi Badli Kaali He,
    Soone Walo Jaagte Rahiyo Chooro Ki Rakhwali He
  12. kattarsunni

    kattarsunni Veteran

    I agree. This is something that people see as extremism now. Especially saturday "sufis". They are more harsh to ahl alsunna than they are to innovators.
  13. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    one of the signs that we live near the end times is that people do not fear for the safety of their iman. they do not know the basics of their religion yet call for unity with innovators and like to sit with them, pray with them, go to their gatherings and have dealings with them as they would with a sunni. they label innovators as their 'muslim brothers', be they shi'a, deobandi, wahabi. they do this even though they can barely distinguish truth from falsehood.

    conversely, our predecessors were mountains of knowledge and were epitomes of taqwa and sincerity. they would recognise the heresy of an innovator from a mile off and if it were allowed for anyone to sit with innovators, it was our predecessros. let us see how they advised muslims to behave towards bid'atis [in our times: shi'as, wahabis, deobandis] in light of the hadith:

    1. Whoever innovates or accommodates an innovator then upon him is the curse of Allah, His Angels and the whole of mankind. [Bukhari]

    2. Hasan Basri: “Do not sit with the people of innovation and desires, nor argue with them, nor listen to them.” [Darimi]

    3. Sufyan Thawri: Whoever listens to an innovator has left the protection of Allah and is entrusted with the innovations.” [Hilya, Abu Nu’aym]

    4. Imam Malik: “How evil are the people of innovation, we do not give them salam.” [Sharh al-Sunnah]

    5. Fudayl ibn Iyad: “Whoever sits with a person if innovation, then beware of him and whoever sits with a person of innovation has not ben given wisdom. I would love that there was a fort of iron between me and a person of innovation. That I eat with a Jew and a Christian is more beloved to me than that I should eat with a person of Innovation.”

    why have we become so careless in this grave matter? rasulAllah sallAllahu 'alaihi wa sallam said that a man has the religion of his friend yet when our sunni scholars tell us not to associate with shi'as and deobandis, we consider them backwards and dislike what they preach? they try to save our iman and we wish evil upon them...

    may Allah guide us all.

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