Atabek, his student, and Atheists

Discussion in 'Hadith' started by abu Hasan, May 4, 2019.

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  1. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    this has been explained in much more detail in commentaries of muslim and bukhari. besides, it is easy to explain. however, due to atabek's poor translation the problem appears unnecessarily magnified.

    the hadith is found in bukhari: #5093-95. the shu'um (ill-omen) is discussed under #2858
    bukhari, n5093.png

    imam bukhari titled the chapter: "of what is feared to be bad-luck in a woman" [can also be translated as: "one's bad-luck to have a bad woman as a wife"]

    ibn hajar says: the tense is not generic (i.e. due to tab'yiD تبعيض) and it means some women can be ill-luck and not all of them.

    and as proof cites the marfu'u hadith: "it is the good fortune of a man (ibn adam) that he is blessed with three things: a good wife, a comfortable home and a good vehicle [markab]. and the bad luck for a man is a bad woman, a bad place to live and a bad vehicle".

    in another narration via hakim: "three things due to bad luck: a wife, who makes you unhappy if you look at her and lashes her tongue against you; and a (mounting) animal which is will obey you if you lash it and if you leave it, you will not reach your companions (i.e. the destination); and a house which is cramped and has fewer amneties"

    FBr, v11p369.png

    also bukhari, #2858
    bukhari, n2858.png
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  2. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    atabek is similar to modi - the muslim hating, evil, narcissistic, prime moron of india.

    according to modi, indians were living in caves and did not have access to running water. in just 5 years, he has transformed the country to a technology powerhouse. and of course, introduced bottled milk and sliced bread in the first year of his (mis)rule.

    atabek is no different. before atabek, nobody actually understood arabic. not only did he formulate the rules of arabic grammar, he also invented the classification of hadith. now, he has the distinction of identifying problematic hadith and giving them proper contextual meaning.

    wah atabek-ji wah*

    however, the statement below is valid. it is true that hadith can be misunderstood, if you read it sans context, history, comparative reading of other hadith, generally accepted principles and well-known fiqh rulings.
    even atabek did not know this, and was making fun of sahih hadith; perhaps refutations have drilled some sense into him and is now coming around to stand in line with the standard position.

    alas, if only atabek knew this before attacking sahih hadith and making fun of them...

    agree with the overall assessment. atabek and his students must make out a plaque and hang it in their rooms.

    *indian joke. difficult to explain. try googling "wah modiji wah"
    Last edited: May 4, 2019
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  3. Juwayni

    Juwayni Veteran

    As Salamu 'Alaykum,

    Kalam Research and Media recently put up a paper in which the author (Shoaib Ahmad Malik) quotes his teacher's alleged "expertise" to interpret a narration that he says was in Sahih al-Bukhari. What do we say about this type of reasoning? Quote:

    2.3.1 Hermeneutics and Jurisprudence
    The theological concerns that atheists have are problems of major proportions. As I have highlighted earlier, the central issue within the theological realm is a lack of familiarity with the principles of jurisprudence and hermeneutics. As noted by Abdullah Saeed, we are facing the problem of atomization wherein single verses are picked out of their collective thematic, linguistic, and historical background. If a physics textbook was interpreted similarly, then physics would become a distorted enterprise. More so than the Qur’an, the hadith literature poses a great challenge. The Qur’an has been determined, through the unanimous consensus of Islamic scholarly authority, to have the highest level of transmission (mutawatir), but only one to four hundred hadiths are agreed upon by consensus to be on the same level. The rest are divided between well-known hadiths (mashhur) and single narrations (ahad) which are discerned, filtered, and scrutinised through various and extensive methodologies of hadith verification. These methodologies are largely unknown to atheists and the general Muslim community. Atabek Shukurov, an expert Hanafi scholar, provides an interesting example in his book on the principles of hadith classification of how the failure to apply this methodology can lead to flawed interpretations:

    Take the famous hadith of Ibn Umar which is narrated in Sahih al-Bukhari: “There is bad luck in three things: women, houses and transport”. The way this hadith has been narrated is very demeaning to women, as they are considered bad luck. It also encourages superstition which is an anathema to Islam. The Sahaba presented this hadith to Aisha who said “may God forgive Ibn Umar, he did not lie, but the Prophet [peace be upon him] was talking about the time of ignorance [before Islam] and the things people used to believe”. Therefore, the hadith expressed views that were diametrically opposed to the true Islamic position.

    This is one of the simpler examples in which confusion can arise from within hadith literature; it also highlights how even one of the most authoritative texts after the Qur’an—Bukhari’s collection of hadith—is not immune to misunderstandings, and thus must be studied in extensive detail before what it contains can be properly interpreted.

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