Discussion in 'Glossary' started by Aqdas, Oct 11, 2017.

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  1. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    Golra sharif.

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  2. Adham12

    Adham12 Active Member

    Maybe this is why…

    “I am not from Bareilly. There is no such sect as Barelawi.

    Some people say to differentiate themselves from Deobandis they refer to themselves as Barelawi. Where I come from in Kashmir the Sunnis are referred to as Sunnis, while Wahabis are named Wahabis, and Deobandis are referred to as Wahabis or Deobandi, while Shia are referred to as Shia. So when lay people hear 'Sunni' they only think of us, the Sunnis, people who do mawlid, urs, have sufi orders, and follow Sunni Ulama. I will never replace Sunni with 'Barelawi', and that is why I corrected Abdul Rahman Hasan on this point. After I did this some mushaghibun slandered me on whatsapp groups...

    If, however, in a certain context people or myself refer to ourselves as 'Barelawi' then it would mean a nisba to Ala Hazrat, like we may have nisba to any of the Ulama of Ahl alSunna.”

    -Shaykh Asrar
  3. Mubashar Luqman

    Mubashar Luqman New Member

    Ho Kar Ke Sunni, Kyuñ Nahiñ Kehte Ho Bareilvi
    Ab Hosh Me Aa, Keh De Abhi, Maiñ Huñ Bareilvi

    When you are sunni, why are you not saying, I am a Bareilvi
    Now come to your senses, and say immediately, I am a Bareilvi

    - Mufti Afthab Cassim Al Qaadri حفظ الله
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  4. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    Doing the rounds on FB:

    Are we "Sunni" or "Barelwi"?

    We are Ahl us-Sunnah wa al-Jama'ah, in short, "Sunni", this term is derived from the Hadith of the 73 sects; when the Messenger of Allah said, "the saved sect is the one who is upon my Sunnah and the Sunnah of my companions (Jama'ah)".

    "Sunni" is a universal term used by Muslims around the globe to align themselves with the true creed of Islam. The purpose of this term is to differentiate and distinguish ourselves from any unorthodox beliefs and practices.

    As trials within the Muslim world increased and more unorthodox ideologies formed, the "Sunnis" aligned themselves to those scholars who advocated and preached the correct beliefs, i.e. Imam Abul Hasan al-Ash'ari and Imam Abu Mansoor al-Maturidi. Those who aligned themselves to their teachings became known as Asharis or Maturidis. These became two schools of theology within the Ahl us-Sunnah.

    So when a person says, "I am Maturidi", he does not intend to say I was born in Maturid; instead, he affirms the teachings and beliefs conveyed by the great Imam in light of the Quran and Sunnah. Some appellations have become a hallmark of "Sunnis" throughout the centuries, such as those mentioned above.

    However, other appellations such as "Barelwi" were given by deviants to Sunnis in an attempt to demonstrate a new "creed" being formed by a group of individuals who follow Imam Ahmad Rida Khan.

    This is why many scholars from the subcontinent refused and warned people from 'actively' calling themselves "Barelwi" instead of "Sunni", as it would lead to more harm than good. People would assume that "Barelwism" is another sect, and they have their own beliefs contradicting those of the Sunnis. This fear of confusion is currently manifest when people call themselves "Barelwi" then clarify that there is no difference between Sunni and Barelwi; they are synonymous. For this exact reason, the scholars advised us only to use the appellation of Sunni.

    Contrastingly, in some parts of the world, the appellation of "Barelwi" is used to differentiate from other deviant sects and their beliefs such as "Deobandis, Qadiyanis". Nevertheless, this is limited to a specific demographic and usage; it is NOT a universal appellation.

    If one chooses to call themselves "Sunni" only, there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. Those who consider this incorrect are ignorant and people of a cultish mentality.


    Q. Why do you call yourself Ashari/Maturidi?
    A. Ashari/Muturidi are schools of theology.

    Q. Why do you call yourself Qadiri/Chishti?
    A. These are schools of tasawwuf and spiritual wayfaring.
  5. Shadman

    Shadman Active Member

    Unfortunately the pejorative use is wide spread. The common folks who never heard of the term will most likely turn to Google or YouTube and search "What is Barelwi[or whatever spelling variant]?" and find non Sunni links/videos falsely claiming deviation. With the aforementioned method of acquiring answers, they'll stay away from scholars who proudly adds it to their name and will be wary of any scholars who are accused of being one.

    On a side note it would be more beneficial if this thread was named as "What is Barelwi?" rather than simply "Barelwi” for SEO/web-crawling purposes.

    In the end, we are at a huge disadvantage when it comes to search engines of the world wide web.
  6. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    People who run from the eponym Barelwi say things like: Bareilly is in India and I'm born in Bradford. So I'm not a Barelwi.

    Fine. Don't be one. But your logic stinks.

    I was born in Birmingham.
    My imam was born in Maturid.
    I'm a Maturidi.
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  7. Ghulam Ali

    Ghulam Ali Active Member

    we have just had a brand new purpose built masjid in our locality and the masjid known as Ghousia Masjid has a massive logo

    Sunni Hanafi Barelwi.

    we just need to continue raising awareness
  8. Ghulam Ali

    Ghulam Ali Active Member

    yes but nowadays we got dodgys posing as sufis but you will be no way will any foreigner call themselves Barelwi. Observation. Understand what you are saying though just some people too thick to even work out basics
  9. غلام رسول

    غلام رسول New Member

  10. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    Who remembers when sidis used to accuse us of only targeting Arab shaykhs? And say we have underlying racism.

    I do.

    Dear sidis,

    Who was Irfan Shah? The favourite of Barelwis. And who are the ones who've called him out? Not you. It's the Barelwis. The non-Barelwis are quietly carrying on, ignoring the issue.

    Dear sidis,

    So know and know well, when your shaykhs were refuted, it was on principles. Not racism. Barelwis don't care if a scholar is Arab or from their own back yard.

    And it isn't the first time. Tahir ul was one of us once upon a time and so too Abdul Qadir Shah. Who ousted them? Barelwis.

    It's easy to criticise Barelwis. It's not as easy to be as principled.

    Go ahead and show us that you too can do this. Call out the wrongs of your shaykhs. You won't. You can't. It seems your mission isn't the creed, it is your shaykh. It appears your call isn't towards principles, it is to your shaykh.

    Prove me wrong...
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  11. Surati

    Surati Well-Known Member

    Why are people no longer wanting to associate with the term ‘Barelwi’ anymore?

    I have seen people, even Ulama on social media saying they are sunni but not barelwi even if they follow the teachings of Imam Ahmad Rida Khan.
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  12. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

  13. Surati

    Surati Well-Known Member

    “Sulah Kullis (50/50s), Raafazis and Tafzeeli Shias were hiding in the camps of Sunnis but now that they, their colleagues and their ignorant and arrogant followers have been exposed for their cunning beliefs and intimate association with the people of corrupt and Kufriya beliefs, they are attacking the Barelwi Nisbat. It is important for the true Sunnis to know what is the contextual understanding of the word ‘Barelwi’”

    Mufti Abdun Nabi Hamidi
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  14. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    Sunnis of the Arab world are known as Sufis.
    Will people now say Sufis are different to Sunnis?

    So x shaykh is said to be Sufi. Does that mean he's not Sunni?

    Your answer to this is my answer to Barelwi-Sunni.
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  15. a_concerned_sunni

    a_concerned_sunni New Member


    The word "Bareilvī " explains the true Sunni identity. *In different times, the Noble and wise `Ulamā’ Ikraam have set differentsigns for the true identity of Sunnīs, which has helped Muslims to separate true and false Sunnīs. All these signs were the NISBATS (relationships) of pious personalities.

    When the FITNAH of the Mu`tazilite, Khaarijite, Jabria and Qadria sects started, at that time the Khawaarij pretended to be Sunnīs and were misleading the true Sunnīs. When their mischief became prevalent, Allāh`Azzawajal adorned Ḥaḍrat Abul Ḥasan `Alī bin Ismā`eel Ash-`aree with knowledge and Ma`rifah and sent him to help Muslims during this difficult time.**** He destroyed all the deceiving tricks of the Khawaarij and Mu`tazila and informed Muslims that these sects are not on the right path but only pretending to be Sunnīs. Besides this, he also taught the correct beliefs of Islām to the Muslims. At that time, Sunnīs were recognized by the word ‘ Ash-`aree, ’ because of the relationship with this great Imām of the Ahlus-Sunnah wal Jamaa`ah. Also, in this era, only such a person would be regard as a true Sunnī who was identified as an Ash-`aree, and the one who was not Ash-`aree, would not be considered to be a Sunnī, rather he would be counted amongst the Khaarijees and a liar in the society.**** Then at another time there appeared people with corrupt beliefs who again started deceiving Muslims in the guise of being Sunnīs, subsequently, Imām-e-Ahlus-Sunnah Ḥaḍrat Sheikh Abū Mansoor Maatureedī Samarqandī gathered all Sunnīs together. He destroyed the Fitnah of fake Sunnīs. Due to his teachings, once again, Sunneeyat became strong and alive. At that time the identity of true or false Sunnīs was his NISBAT, and here, Ṣaḥeeḥul `Aqeedah Sunnīwas called ‘Maatureed ī.’ Any Muslim, who would use the NISBAH of ‘Maatureedī’ as his religious identity, would be regarded as a true Sunnī, and the one who hated the word Maatureedī or shied away from this Nisbah would be regarded as BAD-MAZHAB and Gumraah (misguided).****

    We learn from the above that whenever there was a conspiracy to destroy the `Aqaa-id (beliefs) of Islām, someone from amongst the servants of Allāh `Azzawajal helped the Muslim Ummah and safeguarded their Īmaan, and NISBAH towards their names or where they come from (city or village) became the identity of true Sunnī Muslims.****

    In the sub-continent, the British government sowed the seeds of Najdeeyat and Wahhaabeeyat to weaken the Īmaan of Muslims and to divide them so they may rule India with ease. Wahhaabism with all its branches (Deobandism, Ghair-Muqallids, Jamaate-Islāmī, Ahle-Ḥadīth, Ahle-Qur-aan, Salfees etc.) started attacking the pure and noble status of the Beloved Nab ī Ṣallallaahu’alaihiwasallam and the beautiful garden of Islām becamepolluted with their filthy attacks, yet they still said that, we are Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaa`ah! ****

    At that difficult moment, Allāh `Azzawajal lit the light in Bareily Shareef, and this light suppressed the darkness of Wahhaabism and guided those Muslims who went astray. This light of Bareily Shareef illuminated the entire world of Sunneeyat with the light of the Beloved Musṭafā Ṣallallaahu’alaihiwasallam.

    Truly speaking, we the small ones in the Ahlus-Sunnah have received every bit of knowledge or Ma`rifah from that Door, and thus, our hearts are filled with the love of the Beloved Nabī Ṣallallaahu’alaihiwasallam, due to this king of Bareily Shareef, otherwise, the ignoramuses of Deobandism and the fools of Wahhaabism almost took us dreadfully close to the eternal fire of hell. What an immense favor this great personality had done upon us, therefore, why should we not thank him and sing his praises?****

    Alḥamdulillaah `Azzawajal, the NISBAH of this revered personality of Bareily Shareef, Sayyidī Imām-e-Ahlus Sunnat A`lā Ḥaḍrat Imām Aḥmad Raza Khān Muḥaddithe Bareilvī became our identity! To regard yourself as a Bareilvī with regards to `Aqeedah matters is not farḍ, waajib or Sunnah, however, as in the past, to differentiate between the true and false Sunnīs, viz. the NISBAH of Ash-`aree and Maatureedī was necessary, similarly in this time, the NISBAH of Bareilvī is essential for the true Sunnī Muslims, since, in this time, many false people have kept their names as Sunnīs. If we remove the ‘Bareilvī’ NISBAH, how would we recognize who is true and who is false? Thus, in this era there is no other word except ‘ Bareilvī ’ which can be used to separate false Sunnīs from the true Sunnīs. *If there is any other word to make a clear distinction between the deceptive and false Sunn**ī**s and the authentic Sunn**ī**s (Ahlus-Sunnah wal Jamaa`ah), then it must be presented. I look forward to anyone who can present such a word; this is yet to be seen.* The expression ‘Bareilvī,’ is not the name of a Silsilā (spiritual order), neither is it a branch of the Qaadiriyyah Silsilā but it is synonymous with the term ‘Ahlus-Sunnah wal Jamaa`ah.’ Therefore, all Qaadiries; Chishties; lNaqshbandies and Suhrwardies etc. who are proper Sunnies are known as Bareilvies in this age and time.****

    One does not necessarily have to be called a Bareilvī to be a true Sunnī, but simply requires to possess the same beliefs. We would consider a person who lives for example in the Middle East (who doesn’t know the difference between Deobandies and Bareilvies), a Bareilvī, only if he has the same belief system and has not gone against Ḍurooreyaat-e-Deen (essentials of religion) or Ḍurooreyaat-e-Mazhabe Ahlus-Sunnah (essentials of the Ahlus-Sunnah). Even if this person doesn’t know where Bareily is or what it represents. Therefore, this is for such a person who doesn’t know anything regarding the word Bareilvī, however, for the one who understands well what Bareilvī means and still says with disgust that I am not a Bareilvī, he will be condemned and questioned.****

    We may be Qaadirī or Chishtī, Shaafi`ee or Ḥanafī, but we will always be Bareilvī first, because this pertains to the matter of `Aqeedah whilst the others deal with Fiqh and Taṣawwuf which are dependent upon Īmaan (`Aqaa-id).****

    Taleb-e-Maghfirah and Baqi’****

    Abdun Nabi Hamidi****"
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  16. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    He felt that he was in a timeless land that did not fade or change or fall into forgetfulness. When he had gone and passed again into the outer world, still Frodo the wanderer from the Shire would walk there, upon the grass among elanor and niphredil in fair Lothlórien.

    I feel that this quote captures some of the magic that one experiences when reading the works of the masters - their books are akin to timeless places that do not fall prey to the ravages of time - and there we meet them in person and they speak to us their wisdom - as if in an enchanted land of dreams, a connection that outlives physical presence.

    Hold fast to the books, with your nawaajiz - and you shall need little else.

    wa ma tawfeeq illa bi Allah.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 5, 2018
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  17. ghulam-e-raza

    ghulam-e-raza Well-Known Member

  18. Mohammed Ali Rizvi

    Mohammed Ali Rizvi New Member

  19. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    indeed. the real alahazrat cannot be known except through his works.

    one can attend endless lectures on the personality of alahazrat, read his biographies written by people and listen to all kinds of lengthy discourses about his mastery, his genius and his piety.

    and yet, something will always evade you.

    the real alahazrat, you meet in his books, not in the lecture hall.

    through his books, he speaks to you, directly, looking you in the eye. in his books he is a living and breathing personality - he is alive.
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  20. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    am i a barelwi? yes, of course.

    "but on occasions, you have said that you are sunni and not barelwi - so why the change of heart?"

    there is no change of heart. alahazrat is a barelwi by his domicile. by extension, his followers are known as barelwi. alahazrat imam ahmad rida khan was an imam of ahl al-sunnah and identified himself as a sunni. anyway, as it happens in this world, certain appellations catch on, and sunnis are known as barelwis in the subcontinent.

    the enemies of ahl al-sunnah - wahabis, devbandis etc. - began to use the term 'barelwi' as a pejorative and tried to push it as a term for a sect, or for those who have deviated from the sunnah. in fact, antics of sufi-claimants and ugly innovations are all attributed to 'barelwism' without second thought.

    for example a madcap heretic like tahir jhangvi is termed a 'barelwi' and insisted upon, whereas neither are his actions are permitted by alahazrat, nor does the person (i.e. tahir himself) wishes to be called a barelwi.

    when ISIS or some other terrorist group commits some outrage, kuffar routinely blame islam and muslims. then, everybody takes pains to make the differentiation between islam and the 'islam-claimed-by-terrorists'. yet, these people do not hesitate when slandering alahazrat or sunnis from the subcontinent.

    alahazrat or "barelwis" should be measured by the fatawa of their imam and not by what some followers do or say.

    nas'alu Allaha al-aafiyah.

    when some attack - terrorist or otherwise - happens in the world, people proudly proclaim that they stand together with the victims by slogans such as: 'we are all parisian". f'example, see here.

    when ahl al-sunnah is attacked by defaming and slandering 'barelwis' or the followers of alahazrat; and by implication, the imam of ahl al-sunnah - sunnis should stand together in solidarity with the sunnis from the subcontinent.

    yes, i am a barelwi.

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