coming or going

Discussion in 'Bickering' started by Inwardreflection, May 17, 2017.

Draft saved Draft deleted
  1. Well another way to view the Quotes of our great Imam is " Can I make my own Fatwa?" Al Suyuti RehmatUllah Alai's answer - "no"

    "Can I choose from any Fatwa" - Imam Suyuti's answer "yes, but with condition's"

    So no contradiction brother
  2. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    interestingly, in ihya and zabidi's sharh, they mentioned a saying that "the longer the beard, the more diminished is the intellect". would you say they are talking in absolutes?

    ihya (on the margins of ithaf al-sadah)
    ihya, v2p419.png

    itHaf al-sadah, zabidi, 2/419-420:

    ithafzabidi, v2p420.png

    now go ahead and take the poetic lines of makki and claim that he advocates a short beard. i am waiting.

    just for the record, i will dumb it down. the ashrafi saadat and many other ulama with impressive beards are not being called wahabis here. was only mentioning the very long and unkempt beards of wahabis. because it is sunnah to appear neat, and a long and bushy beard does not look good on everyone. anyway, it is like teaching calculus to a primary school kid. let it go...
  3. Bazdawi

    Bazdawi Well-Known Member

    clearly you have a problem with reading things or maybe because you dont know proper English, you don't understand what exactly is being said. even a fool knows that there is no contradiction between the two.

    "what a blow up"

    all imam suyuti is doing is narrating one of two opinions. does he say which opinion he follows? unless you mean to say that its haram for imam suyuti to mention an opinion other than his own?

    you should invest your time learning proper English then come and enlighten us all.
  4. ashrafisunni

    ashrafisunni New Member

    There is something wrong here Allamah Abu Hasan Ridawi, Suyuti contradicting himself in the same book, just after few lines. What a blow up

    Contradicts with


    which one is the answer, Allamah Abu Hasan Ridawi, and why is Suyuti contradicting himself??

    Also, Mawlana Shaykh Abu Hasan Ridawi for all the scholars for next time onwards like Shaykh Subki, Shaykh Ibn Subki or whoever you quote, make sure you follow your advice, "then one ought to examine his views from various books"
  5. ashrafisunni

    ashrafisunni New Member

    Thanks brother, but I did not like the way, abu hasan talks,
    he should go check out Ashrafi Hazarat and their beards, would he call them wahabis, the guy has no dignity and takes a free hand mocking and insulting others.

    @abu Hasan
    ar-radd 'ala man akhlada ila'l arD wa jahila anna'l ijtihada fi kulli aSrin farD is an important work by imam al-suyuti that proves that ijtihad (in newer issues) is not only possible but also farD in every age. even alahazrat has mentioned this in his fatwa that muftis will have to find solutions to newer problems in each age. i sometimes think that if alahazrat were alive today, he would probably be an outcast, as many muftis would slam him for his 'audacity' of revising opinions of elders.
  6. @ashrafisunni
    Salaam brother. Firstly MashaAllah for being Ashrafi.

    Quoting other Scholars for a Fatwa is quite normal it would appear. Yes quoting from your own School is the preferred way but there are examples where Mujtahids quote other Fuqaha from other Schools. If you check the works of Imam Nawawi, he is on record quoting Al Qadi Iyad at times to support his position.

    Lastly, a School has people who carry the final Fatwa so Imam Nawawi for the Shafi'i, Ibn Abidin, Shuranbulali, Haskafi for Hanafi School. So one goes to such people for verdict to see the final relied position. My point is that, we could name many Scholars who say fist length beard is Sunnah not Wajib yet they are not the people who are relied on for the official position.

    Hope that helps brother
    ashrafisunni likes this.
  7. ashrafisunni

    ashrafisunni New Member

    why are you so paranoid, anyone who disagrees with you become twin-brother of your opponent?
    I know what is the position of Hanafi school, but my question is what is the definition of beard in hanafi school. According to you people,
    anything above handful should be cut and anything less than fistful is fasiq, so Minimum length is Maximum length, but then 100K sahaba had all same MIN=MAX length of beard. you did not answer this because this may require intellect.

    Can you cite the names of scholars who defined BEARD ONLY AS HANDFUL OR FISTFUL Length.

    What is the minimum and maximum lengths for beard in Hanafi school?

    Waiting for your reply.

    The best word in English on the Sunna of keeping the beard is by Nuh Keller:

    Ibn `Umar relates from the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) that he said: "Do otherwise than those who ascribe partners to Allah (al-mushrikin): leave beards be, and trim mustaches." And ibn `Umar, when he went on hajj or `umra, grasped his beard with his hand, and removed what was in excess of it (Sahih al-Bukhari, 9 vols. Cairo 1313/1895. Reprint (9 vols. in 3). Beirut: Dar al-Jil, n.d., 7.206: 5892 and Sahih Muslim, 5 vols. Cairo 1376/1956. Reprint. Beirut: Dar al-Fikr, 1403/1983, 1.222: 259).

    In the Hanafi madhhab, there is no harm (la ba's) in trimming the edges of the beard, though the handful is sunna, for when a narrator (Ibn 'Umar, in this case), has done something in ostensive contravention to what he has narrated (the words "leave beards be"), Hanafi bases of jurisprudence say this shows that the narrator knows that the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) has indicated that the original ruling has been superseded (mansukh) by a subsequent one - permitting the beard to be trimmed, in this case. But trimming it when it is already less than a handful is not permissible in the Hanafi school (Ibn 'Abidin: Radd al-muhtar 'ala al-durr al-mukhtar, 5 vols. Bulaq 1272/1855. Reprint. Beirut: Dar Ihya' al-Turath al-'Arabi, 1407/1987, 2.113).

    Muhammad ibn Hasan al-Shaybani reports in Kitab al-athar, from Imam Abu Hanifa, that "the sunna concerning it [the beard] is the handful, and consists in a man grasping his beard with his hand, and whatever exceeds that, he cuts" (ibid, 5.261).

    A Hanafi shaykh whom my wife and I study with, has told us (without mentioning a reference) that there is disagreement as to where this "handful" should begin from, some holding that one puts the index finger of it just below the lower lip, while according to others, one puts it below the bottom of the chin. The former will obviously result in a much shorter "handful."

    The early Hanafī jurist, Abū Bakr al-Iskāf (d. 330 H) said:

    It is impermissible for a man to cut his beard.

    Ibn al-Humām (d. 861 H), writes:

    As for taking from it (i.e. the beard) when it is less than that (i.e. a fist-length), as some westerners and effeminate men do, none have permitted it, and taking all of it is the practice of the Jews of India and the Zoroastrians of the non-Arabs.
    ‘Alā ad-Dīn al-Haskafī (d. 1088) states in his al-Durr al-Mukhtār.

    It is harām for a man to cut his beard (less than a fist-length).
    Shaykh ‘Ābid as-Sindī (d. 1257 H) said:

    And imitation of them is harām, and doing this (i.e. shaving) is mutilation, so caution should be adopted against it.

Share This Page