Coronavirus and jumu'ah

Discussion in 'Tasawwuf / Adab / Akhlaq' started by AbdalQadir, Jan 28, 2022.

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  1. sherkhan

    sherkhan Veteran

    let's do some quick maths.

    Lombardy, the worst-hit Italian province, has population of ~ 10 million
    23% of these are aged 65+ (higher than European and significantly more than the global average); i.e. 2.3 million

    as of date, 2,550 covid-19 deaths have been reported in Lombardy
    which works to 0.11% death rate

    since this occurred over 4 weeks, we can annualise the death rate to 1.44%. For that segment of population, this mortality rate is not alarming or statistically significant deviation from the normal. Mind you, winter deaths (that too mainly from respiratory complications, and we can count covid as a new factor) are anyway significantly higher among the elderly (the UK data being the case in point).

    So why are alarm bells ringing (for 'whom the bell tolls' anyway for one reason or the other)? Just because a new, uncertain (less understood) danger is at white man's doorstep?

    Calamities/punishments are great levellers; with weevils, wheat grains also get crushed. For sure, Muslims too will die when afflicted with coronavirus. It's hard to imagine any different level of immunity (besides the fact that practising Muslims will less likely be contaminating). Plagues of past didn't spare Muslims.

    Will shuttering the masajids ensure that Muslims escape the pandemic deaths? Rational approach should be to allow non-elderly, non-vulnerable to carry on as usual with congregational prayers (with all necessary precautions).

    But rationality is the first casualty in times of panic.
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2020
    Ghulam Ali likes this.
  2. sherkhan

    sherkhan Veteran

    We belong to the time of namby pamby, squeamish, near end-of-time generation, which panics at the first sight of a scare. Covid-19 happens to be the first pandemic of truly interconnected world, a world ruled by whatsapp/tiktok/whatnot and "optics" (like that mass-murderer Modi enforcing "janata curfew" and promoting pot banging, while other leaders are busy doling trillion-dollar fiscal stimulus).

    I am being an 'Elon Musk' here to stick my neck out and say that the current hysteria is over-played/unfounded. This pandemic (although more contagious) is nowhere as indiscriminate as Ebola with 60% mortality rate (but that was a dark continent's problem) or any where close to being a mass annihilator as bubonic plague of yester years.

    Yes, precaution, alertness and hygiene maintenance is the need of the hour (just as it is for donning a seat belt or helmet). When did any of the 'obscurantist' ulemas advice against it anyway? But mass quarantine?

    It's easier for authorities to order indiscriminate lockdown (and prescribe the healthy and the vulnerable the same 'treatment') than to aggressively sift the infected from the non-infected. Play-safe, "prepare for the worst" etc. are new liberal age mantras (those in west can identify with 'health and safety' culture gone mad).

    Why bother rigorously testing all, when it is far easier (and cheaper and reputationally safer) to quarantine all and sundry? And how to force everyone into a submissive, self-supervised lockdown, other than to magnify the risk and trigger a hysteria?

    I don't buy the argument to shutdown masajids yet. I am personally inclined to believe that the rukhsah for missing jumuah jamaat doesn't yet exist.
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2020
  3. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    but then severe cold and rain and walking through mud too are not the same as facing a fully armed enemy in jihad

    and yet:
    you can accuse me of being a closet wahabi, but what exactly would you say in regards to the narrations above and Ibn Abbas' (radi Allahu 3anhu) ijtehad?

    you can read the Arabic on the links given, and see if their translation is valid or not.

    Abu Hasan is spot on in regards to our scholars being complacent in ijtihad and not putting their thinking caps on!!

    i've even seen brothers complaining of shortening the gatherings of Mi3raj and Qaseedah Burdah Shareef. seriously? why want a mehfil for it? why not learn to actually read the entire Burdah yourself at home and teach to your kids too other than the typical formulaic shola bayan + naatkhwani (with money showred many places) + langar + socializing like a wedding.

    how about quarantine yourself and read the sharh of the Burdah to your family?

    Allah help us.
  4. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    it is sad that our community leaders are failing in their duty. the below video and mufti sahib's reasoning is so poor in various arguments. as i told a friend last night, salafis who are notorious literalists are doing qiyas and the people who follow madh'hab, whose books of usul are full of examples stick to the literal and refuse to do qiyas. sub'HanAllah.

    either we should stop doing any qiyas and ijtihad absolutely or if we can do it for myriad things, why should we not do it for cases where a grave threat for life exists?

    what happened to the principles of 'rukhsah'?

    from an emotional viewpoint - i too feel that we should not shut down the mosques and i have a depressing feeling and lingering sadness for the whole of last week. however, we need to think and take hard decisions.

    comparing apples and oranges. jama'at is wajib in our madh'hab and sunnah in others; however there is a very big clause of PLAUSIBLE EXCUSE that everyone seems to ignore willfully.

    due to the coronavirus scare. it is deemed highly contagious and people have been REALLY dying in italy and china.

    same goes for seat belts. same goes for any high-risk activity. in the end we will all be dead. no argument about it. but the question we should be asking is, does the shariah ignore any threat to limb and life and encourage you to be daring and present yourself to danger?

    the plausible fear of loss of limb and life is a valid excuse for n-number of things. instead emotional reaction, should we not see how and if these principles of fiqh can be adopted in present scenarios? wAllahu'l musta'an.


    didn't read the article. but it is commonly accepted that the virus spreads by close contact. and the cases from korea and malaysia clearly point towards gatherings. of course, we can call it a jewish conspiracy to stop muslims from going to prayer.

    check the case of patient#31.

    in all other circumstances. not there is a fear of infection or getting infected.

    "there is no such thing as infection"

    "alahazrat has written a 70page monograph (al-Haqq al-Mujtala) that debunks the theory of infectious diseases"

    "oh yes indeed. there is a hadith (again read the monograph above) that clearly says: "laa adwa" which is commonly translated as 'there is no such thing as contagion'."

    while alahazrat raHimahullah was correct in his time and according to the information available at that time, it may not be correct according to the information available in our age. in sha'Allah, wa bi tawfiqihi, an analysis of the risalah and the hadith will be presented given the conditions.

    so we must advise diabetes patients to eat loads of honey. because there is shifa in honey.

    Allah ta'ala knows best.
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2020
  5. shahnawazgm

    shahnawazgm Veteran

    Even during jihad prayer has been established and that too in groups in congregation (though the method is slightly different). I do not understand why masjids are shutting down altogether until further notice owing to the coronavirus scare. This pandemic in any case cannot be more deadly than facing the enemy on the battlefield.

    Most UK masjids have shut down until further notice. Remember the UK government has not even forced a closure upon any masjid and all are doing so just as a precaution.
    Umar99 likes this.
  6. Abdullah Ahmed

    Abdullah Ahmed Veteran

    Whoever was meant to die was going to die regardless, whether it was due to Coronavirus or any other means. The brother posting the article is not exactly doing the best dawah of Islam by showing that Islam's "congregational nature" is a "weakness" for Muslims and Islam. Eating from the same plate is from the Sunnah. The Prophet (Salla Allahu alayhi wa sallam) also mentioned that the saliva of a believer is Shifaa' for his brother. IMO, these types of articles are just another attempt at trying to weaken the Iman of Muslims, whether intentionally or unintentionally.
    Ghulam Ali and Umar99 like this.
  7. faqir

    faqir Veteran

  8. sherkhan

    sherkhan Veteran

    another video (specifically on jumuah/jamaat during this time) from Mufti Nizamuddin Misbahi:

  9. Abdullah Ahmed

    Abdullah Ahmed Veteran

    جزاك الله خيرا
  10. Umar99

    Umar99 Veteran

    Letter 41 – Volume 3, Book 1
  11. Abdullah Ahmed

    Abdullah Ahmed Veteran

    Like whats the volume number, page number etc
  12. Umar99

    Umar99 Veteran

    Reference as in for the narration or in Maktūbāt Sharīf?
  13. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    you can mention Ala Hazrat's name directly. anyway, the below video explains it better.

  14. Abdullah Ahmed

    Abdullah Ahmed Veteran

  15. faqir

    faqir Veteran

    As a health professional can I just point out that Aqdas's comment is dangerous. Khalid bin Waleed ra did not go into battle without taking precautions!

    And I'm not sure what someone hopes to achieve by posting that old fatwa insinuating that there is no such thing as a contagious / infectious disease. It's clearly wrong and I'd hope that if he understood the science he would not have given such a statement today.

    Protect your vulnerable and elderly relatives and friends. Whilst most of us and our children will get through this fine they are the ones most at risk of death.

    may Allah protect us all.
  16. AR Ahmed

    AR Ahmed Veteran

    Brother Umar99, could you kindly inform as to what the contexts of AlaHazrat radhiyAllahu anhu and Hadrat Mujaddid Pak alayhirrahmah's quotes are regarding infectious disease?

    Were they negating infectious disease as a whole?
  17. Abdullah Ahmed

    Abdullah Ahmed Veteran

    Can you please provide the reference for this?
    جزاك الله خيرا
  18. Umar99

    Umar99 Veteran

    Alahazrat, Mawlānā Aĥmad Riđā Khān ibn Mawlānā Naqī Álī Khān al-Ĥanafī al-Qādirī al-Baraylawī was asked, as recorded in Átāyā an-Nabawiyyah fi’l Fatāwā ar-Riđawiyyah:

    “What do the Úlamā of Dīn say regarding this matter, that people were gathered in a barāt, among them was a leper, people did not like to eat with him, one person insisted. When the argument increased the attendees said to him, ‘‘For the sake of Allāh and the accepted Rasūl ﷺ, at this moment, separate him from us and do not ruin the meal of the family.’ He replied, ‘I do not know Allāh and the Rasūl’, at this, everybody said that this man has uttered words of Kufr, and along with the leper they isolated him too and expelled him from their gathering, some others joined him and also left. In this situation, what is the ruling upon this individual and those who joined him? Please make clear and gain reward.

    The great Mujaddid answered:

    “However, it is permissible to eat with a leper, in fact, Nabi ﷺ himself seated a leper with him in order to eat and stated, ‘Eat with me, taking Allāh's name, trusting in Allāh and relying upon Allāh.’

    Narrated by Abū Dāwūd, al-Tirmidhī and Ibn Mājah with a Ĥasan chain. Ibn Ĥibbān and al-Ĥākim declared it to be Şaĥīĥ.

    To such an extent, that if it is done out of humility, reliance [upon Allāh] and following [the Rasūl ﷺ], he shall be rewarded:

    Imām al-Ţaĥāwī wrote, on the authority of Abū Dharr رضي الله عنه from the Nabī ﷺ, ‘Eat with the one who is afflicted out of humility to your Lord and trusting in Him.’

    However, eating with him is not necessary, rather the one who is unable to see beyond causes and does not fully rely upon Allāh, it is appropriate for him to stay away. The person should not consider the disease to be contagious, as this belief is false. Nabī ﷺ has refuted this in Şaĥīĥ aĥādīth, he ﷺ stated,

    ‘There is no contagious disease.’

    This was written by Imām Aĥmad, Bukhārī, Muslim and Abū Dāwūd from Abū Hurayrah. It was also written by Aĥmad and Muslim from Jābir ibn Ábdullāh and al-Sā'ib ibn Yazīd رضي الله عنهم. He ﷺ stated,

    ‘Then who infected the first camel?’

    This was written by Bukhārī, Muslim and Abū Dāwūd, also from Abū Hurayrah رضي الله عنه.

    Rather, [he should stay away] with the belief that perhaps, due to the Divine Will, it may also befall him. And at that time [of being afflicted by the disease], Shayţān may deceive one to think that it was due to that action that such has occurred, otherwise it would not. In this thought, there is harm to one's Dīn, Nabi ﷺ stated,

    ‘The word “if” opens the gates of Satanic deeds.’

    There is no harm in a person, whose Īmān is strong and who relies upon Allāh, in mixing with [the one who is diseased]. It is better for a person, whose belief is weak, to abstain in order to protect his Dīn, and for this reason the Master of the World ﷺ stated,

    ‘Flee from the leper as you flee from a lion.’

    This was written by Bukhārī from Abū Hurayrah رضي الله عنه.

    In another ĥadīth it is stated,

    ‘Avoid the leper as a beast of prey avoids [the predator]; when he descends into a valley, then you should descend into another valley.’

    In another ĥadīth it is stated,

    ‘Speak to the leper whilst there is between you and him a distance of one lance or two lances.’

    This was narrated by Ibn al-Sunnī and Abū Nuáym in al-Ţibb al-Nabawī on the authority of Ábdullāh ibn Abī Áwfā رضي الله عنه from Nabī ﷺ.

    In any case, the refusal of the attendees was not something that transgresses the limits and the obstinacy of that individual was improper. Then, when they requested for the sake of Allāh, then he was sinful for not accepting without a reason, it is in the ĥadīth,

    ‘That person is accursed; the one who is implored by the name of Allāh but does not give the seeker, as long as it is not a request to abandon someone.’

    This was written by al-Ţabarānī in al-Kabīr with a Ĥasan chain from Abū Mūsā al-Ashárī رضي الله عنه from Nabī ﷺ.

    Until this point, it was only foolishness or sin, the words that he uttered after this, that I do not know Allāh and Rasūl ﷺ, this is clear words of Kufr, and we seek refuge with Allāh táālā. It is Farđ upon that individual that he does Tawbah and become Muslim anew, if he was married, then he must anew his Nikāĥ, and just as he uttered those words in a gathering, he must also do Tawbah in a gathering, if he does not accept then the Muslims should indeed expel him from their group; not allow him to sit with them nor sit with him themselves, nor be a partner in his affairs, nor make him a member in one's special occasions. Allāh táālā states:

    ‘And if Shayţān causes you to forget, then do not sit with the unjust after remembering.’

    [Anáām, 6:68]

    And those who supported him and left, they also became major sinners, Tawbah is Wājib upon them also, if they do not then it is appropriate for the Muslims to separate from them also. Allāh táālā knows best.”

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  19. Umar99

    Umar99 Veteran

    Mujaddid Alf Thānī Imām Rabbānī Aĥmad ibn Ábdu'l Aĥad al-Fārūqī al-Sirhindī al-Naqshbandī al-Ĥanafī writes in one of his Maktūbāt:

    “And do not believe in ill omens, as they do not have any effects, and do not consider any disease as contagious; that one catches a disease from another and can be transferred from an ill person to a healthy person, as the Mukhbir al-Şādiq ﷺ has forbidden from both of these,

    ‘There is no bad omen nor contagious disease.’

    It means that bad omens are baseless and that disease spreading from one to another is also not proven absolutely with certainty.”

    Screen Shot 2020-03-14 at 7.36.20 pm.png
  20. Umar99

    Umar99 Veteran

    Alahazrat, Mawlānā Aĥmad Riđā Khān ibn Mawlānā Naqī Álī Khān al-Ĥanafī al-Qādirī al-Baraylawī was asked, as recorded in al-Malfūż al-Sharīf:

    “Sir, some diseases are contagious?”

    He replied, “No, it is stated in the Ĥadīth, ‘There is no contagious disease.’”

    The man asked, “Why, then, has the command been given to flee from a leper?”

    He replied, “That command is for the one with weak Īmān. If he sits with a leper and by the Divine Will something happens to him, Shayţān will mislead him to say that this occurred due to sitting with him and that if he had not sat with him then it would not have occurred; he will forget the Divine Will.”

    The man then asked, “Why, then, is it forbidden to flee from the plague?”

    He replied, “For the reason that there is a clear command in the Ĥadīth, ‘The one who flees from the plague is like the one who shows his back to the Kuffār during Jihād and flees.’ It is also commanded not to go to a place wherein there is plague.”

    Screen Shot 2020-03-14 at 7.34.07 pm.png

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