Marrying your children with people from Pakistan to learn Arabic? Haha... So, sidi Iftikhar: سؤالي لك هو التالي: كيف درستَ هذه اللغة و في أي مكان؟ هل من الممكن لك أن تعطيني الإحصائيات المتعلقة بفهمك أن الذين اتخذوا أزواجهم من باكستان، لهم أفضلية فيما يتعلق بدراسة هذه اللغة الجميلة؟
My point is that since Huzoor Sallallahu 'Alayhe Wasallam di marry His First Cousin Umm al-Mu'minin Hazrat Zaynab binte Jahash Raziallahu Ta'alah 'Anha . And so since He did this, there is perfectly no harm in doing so. I am not talking about preferences. if preferences are taken, then see it this way. When you are marrying your first cousin, you are taking many things as granted. like for example Compatibility, stability of relations. And also chances of better Understanding between you and your spouse ! It is equally possible that marrying a non-cousin may make a better stabilisation in relations. But the thing is that its probability increases in cousin marriages. And Islam is targeted at very often. The disorders mentioned like Microcephaly and transmission of diseases has loads and loads of other causes. And rather the other causes are very dominant. Genetic disorders accompany with a term called "Probability Factor". this probabilty factor, according to genetics, is purely a probability case. It can be that a person who is married to a person who is not even in far off relations to another person may have a child born with a disorder, Because here the recessive traits can take over. PURE PROBABILITY !
Salam Alaikum Mohtaram I found your post quite intriguing. With respect, I wish to learn further from your experience and/or discuss some of the points you raised, and perhaps even disagree respectfully. I may or may not be right where I disagree. I have NOT lived in the UK. Just been on 2 visits for tourism and work. I can't seem to figure out who you are talking about here. Let's divide this into 3 parts: 1) Recitation - A good majority of the common people just barely learn to read the Quran in both India and Pakistan. A good majority doesn't have proper pronunciation and tajweed. If a lot of the maulanas are like this, you can imagine the state of the awam. Some people never learn to read, while others learn to read at a very later stage in life if Allah grants them some realization and tawfiq. THIS will be the bulk majority of the common people. Given the Muslim population in the UK, and the amount of teachers of Arabic, I would think the situation with the awam would be the same in the UK. As I said, I may be wrong. I'm just a bit intrigued by your post. 2) Hifz - This is not the bulk majority of the awam but they are somewhat better in pronunciation and tajweed than the awam. I don't have any doubts that Pakistan and India have more of these than the west given the Hifz classes in such countries and the fondness for Huffaaz that still exists in these countries amongst the parents for their kids to be Huffaaz. 3) Recitation and/or Hifz with understanding meanings of Quranic Arabic - this is only available in the madaaris. 90-95% of the people fall in the first two categories for sure. Unless you're talking about the third category, I don't see how the first 2 are particularly helpful for anyone who could well attain either of those levels in the UK as well. Muslims born n bred in Indo-Pak/Muslim nations are the same as those in the west as far as I've seen in these times. Not better, not worse, as far as knowledge and application of deen is concerned. Things might have been different in the 70's and 80's but not now certainly. Are you talking about Anglo-Saxons or other ethnicities when you say "others"? If it is "other" ethnicities I don't see how they are any more privileged than Pakistanis in terms of access to their language and literature. The Pakistanis can only be better because they have more numbers. Plus, how exactly is one handicapped without "literature" or "poetry" from the culture. It is advantageous no doubt, but I'm sure there will be other replacements available for it. Besides, I don't think UK has shut down access to the all famous bollywood and that is pretty much all the culture, literature, and poetry that exists in the subcontinent presently, along with of course a selection of half a billion satellite tv channels and soap operas. With due respect, I really find that as quite bizarre. Living in the UK, they can't speak proper English, and belonging to Pakistani background, they can't speak proper Urdu/Punjabi? So what exactly are they well versed in? You can expect that to be a practically passable law in the UK? No nonMuslim teachers is one thing, but no nonMuslim students too? Is it really possible even in theory, for state schools in the UK? As a non-UK resident, I would like to ask if this problem is more acute with subcontinentals or all ethnicities of Muslims, like Arabs, Malays, Turks, etc.? Would this also be true of other ethnicities? I would also like to know if they have taken any surveys by desis on this. Also I would like to ask if this and the problem mentioned in the point right above (regarding self esteem, confidence, bullying, racism, etc.), is also a problem with NONMUSLIM desis, hindus, sikhs, gujratis and so on or only a problem with those of Muslim background? I daresay, that's the case with a lot of people "back home" too. But I concur, that is the case with a lot of ethnic populations in the west, Muslim or otherwise. Well I don't understand how/why we in the west can't run a Bayt al-Maal for private school projects that we so miserably require. Home schooling is also a most EXCELLENT option in our times specially considering all the fitnah's around us, that most people seem to ignore or have not even heard of. Some of the greatest scholars of Islam were personally schooled by their parents or given one on one instruction. Home schooling is an excellent model.
Walaikum salam, MHR - if you are going to refer to the Prophet sallahu alayhe wasalam then you should say the more prefferred sunnah is to marry a non-cousin. The genetic arguament is questionable at best, but i dont see how it is propaganda. Its not like they are trying to attack islam by saying cousin marraiges are bad.
Assalaamu 'Alaykum The Shariah itself has allowed cousin marriage. Huzoor Sallallahu 'Alayhe Wasallam married Umm al-Mu'minin Hazrat Zaynab binte Jahash Raziallahu Ta'alah 'Anha who was His first Cousin . If any Work is Done by The Prophet of Islam Sallallahu 'Alayhe Wasallam , then it can contain no Harms .. This Has to be Accepted by Each and Every Muslim ..! Secondly, all this hue and cry over the genetic disorders and stuff, is all false! regarding Microcephaly, there are many other causes of it. genetic disorders can occur in many people. And this is attributed to many other factors, rather than cousin marriages. This is all a propaganda, to discourage Muslims from doing so, which Insha Allah will be will end up as an utter failiure ... Do not get terrified if you are married to your cousin, that you will father a child who has disorders . You have been married acoording to Shariah. Remember Huzoor Sallallahu 'Alayhe Wasallam too had married to His First Cousin. You are following His example. .. You will never end up in trouble. ALLAH HAAFIZ
Salaam My daughter was married to her first cousin, has two grown up young children without any defects. My eldest brother was married to his first cousin with seven children. Four of them are medical doctors and not a single child has any defects. Million of Muslims through out the world are married to their first cousins. Some of them have defective children. I know a family with three defective children. They have no relation with each other. My cousin married a Hindu girl in canada and they have a girl with some sorts of defects. Doctor has advised them not to have any more children. My nephew in Pakistan was married to his first cousin. They have three highly educated children. The ground reality is that British society does not want Muslim parents to get marry their children back home. Man is a product of his culture, language and faith. Muslim communities live in Britain. Majority of Muslims are from Pakistan. Their culture and language is differnt from Bengali or Gujratior Turkish and Arabs. They have only faith in common. They only marry among their own communities because of culture and language. This is the ground reality. In the 70s, when I raised ithe issue of bilingualism and Muslim schools, I was given the impression that British education system does not believe in bilingualism. According to varities of studies, a child will suffer if he/she finds himself cut off from his/her cultural and linguistic roots. Arabic is our religious language and each and every Muslim must be well versd in Quranic Arabic. This the main reason why I believe that Pakistani parents must find marriage partners from Pakistan for their children. Pakistani children and youths suffer more than others because they find themselves cut off from the literature and poetry. Majority of them are not even well versed in Standard English. This is the main rason why majority of Pakistani children leave schools without goood qualification. English is their economic language while Urdu is their social and emotional and Arabic is their religious language. There are hundreds of state schools where Muslim children are in majority. In my opinion, all such schools may be designated as Muslim community schools with bilingual Muslim teachers as role models. There is no place for a non-Muslim child or a teacher in a Muslim school. Bilingual Muslim children have been in state schools for the last 50 years. They have been suffering from Paki-bashing. They have been unable to develop their confidence and self-esteem due to racism and bullying. This is one of the main reason why they have been unable to achieve good grades. They have been suffering from Identity Crises. They do not know where they belong. Muslim school with bilingual Muslim teachers is only the answer. Iftikhar Ahmad
situation dependant. every male/female should assess his/her own circumstances and make an informed decision. doesn't mean anything. most cancer patients are white folk. (personal observation, not a statistic)
I agree with Iftikhar but there are a few issues. Sometimes your cousin back home might want marriage to get stay in the Uk. Sometimes your cousin back home might know nothing apart from farming. So how will he live with a graduate sister. Sometimes your cousin back home might not be interested in Islam. Parents want you to get married to him to save izzat. Your cousin back home might not know the rights of his wife. How are you parents supposed to know what your cousin back home is really like when hes thousands of miles away? He might be lazy and not want to work.
An extreme in anything is harmful. Thus if x & y are cousins & marry there is unlikely to have any major issues-as likely as anyone else. However if x & y are cousins and the parents of x & y are and this has been going on for many a generation the liklyhood of problems does increase-you can see in south asia disorders like Microcephaly... It is an option, not the only option...
Assalaamu 'Alaykum Care to look at my previous post and you will find that i texted it by mistake and later corrected it too ! Now taking a look at your personal view, my personal view is that cousin marriages should be preffered .. Take another look .. Suppose you are married to your cousin .. The possibilities of compatibility increases as you both know each other since childhood (as in many cases), and that both the families of the bride and the groom are fully aware of each other and also since the families are closer to each other it increases the possibility of stability in relations ..! ALLAH HAAFIZ
I dont think it is a religious issue, apart from to say that Islam allows it. To say that its recommended is completely wrong. My personal view is that people shouldnt prefer cousin marraiges because if things dont work out between the spouses* then they are stuck together unhappy for fear of breaking up the wider family, or they divorce and do break up the wider family relations. (And thats assuming that they were happy in the first place with the marraige) *Why in some cases they wouldnt be happy - because most cousin marraiges of british guys / girls are done to their relatives back in Pakistan. Different upbringing, different culture. And the root of my arguament is that marraige should not be based upon family relations like being cousins, but should be based on whether or not the 2 will be compatible.
Assalaamu 'Alaykum Sorry .. I am really.. used the wrong word .. Do apologise .. The Shariah has allowed it ..! ALLAH HAAFIZ
Assalaamu 'Alaykum Well the world majority agrees with our prctise of cousin marriage.. It has no genetic side-effects too .. And The Shariah has recommended it ..! I think the Westen Muslims must be "EDUCATED" as they are currently residing in a world of "IGNORANCE" .. It is not a social taboo , neither it is "incest" ... PS- Brother dont bother about what people say about old-fashioned or stuff ..! It sounds so lame an excuse when people direly want to contradict something good and do not find enough reasons to do so .. ALLAH HAAFIZ
Brother Hassan , I AGREE but a large number of young Muslims growing up in the West do not share our view. They consider it "gross" and like "incest" even though it is permitted in our Shariah. We´re considered old-fashioned!
Assalaamu 'Alaykum Brother Asif, the stigma about cousin marriage is all a created stuff.. There is no harm in it be scientifically or be it socially .. The UK Christians should open the Bible and see that it does not prohibit such relations.. Neither does Leviticus . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_marriage#Judaism_and_Christianity And neither does it creates any birth defects.. As suspected haemophilia is not the outcome of the Brits royal of marrying cousins ... The short explanation is that hemophilia is an X-chromosome-related characteristic, transmitted only through the female line. The children of royal female carriers would have been at risk no matter whom their mothers had married. In April 2002, the Journal of Genetic Counseling released a report which estimated the average risk of birth defects in a child born of first cousins at 1.7–2.8% over an average base risk for non-cousin couples of 3%, or about the same as that of any woman over age 40. Critics argue that banning first-cousin marriages would make as much sense as trying to ban childbearing by older women. And if you are talking population-wise, then see this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:CousinMarriageWorld.svg All this stigma and all stuff is a created one, just to mobilise people against Islam .. ALLAH HAAFIZ
They have been educated by non-Muslim monolingual teachers during their developmental periods. They do not know where they belong. Such Muslim youths are neither part of the Muslim community nor part of the host society. They are just economic slaves, working for the host economy. It is a crime against humanity to send Muslim children to state schools with non-Muslim teachers. They are not role models. Look at the Black community living in western countries. They have adopted your culture and language but they are still the underdogs of your society. They have adopted all the cultural evils of your society. You have been doing the same with Muslim community. I have been campaigning for state funded Muslim schools since early 70s. I set up the first Muslim school in 1981 and now there are 140 Muslim schools and 11 are state funded. My dream is to see each and every Muslim child in a Muslim schools with bilingual Muslim teacher so that they can learn and be well versed in standard English ad not local accents, Arabic ,Urdu and other community languages. A Muslim is a citizen of this tiny global village. He/she does not want to become notoriously monolingual Brit.
For once Iftikar, I actually agree with most of what you say. The sad truth is that a majority of Muslims today do not WANT such marriages themselves due to perceived defects, the stigma attached to it now and so on...
Cousin Marriages Cousin marriage is common in all Muslim countries. It is in accordance with the teaching of the Holy Quran and our Prophet had married his daughter with his uncle son. There were no defects in the children. Cousin marriage is thought to generate more stable relationship. Children are born with defects whether it is cousin marriage or not. Among migrant Muslim communities the defects are due to many factors. The pressure of moving to a different cultural environment and moving from their families, problems of racism and employment are responsible for the defects during pregnancies. The defects are nothing to do with cousin marriages. The hidden agenda is that British society does not want Muslims to bring their spouses from Muslim countries. A man/woman has the right to marry anybody from anywhere. It is a question of human right and the right given to Muslims by the Holy Quran and the sayings of the Holy Prophet. I would like to see each and every Pakistani parent should marry their sons and daughters in Pakistan so that their offsprings could speak, read and write Urdu language and enjoy the beauty of their literature and poetry. The racist British education system has produced only notoriously monolingual Pakistani Brits. Pakistani parents would like their children to be well versed in Standard English, Arabic and Urdu languages and to be part of the British society as well as keeping in touch with their cultural roots. Marrying cousin is and has always been legal in the UK. It is not only migrant communities who have children with their cousins, rural communities have their fair share…truly… and lets not even look at the inbreeding within royalty and the aristocracy. How else do you think the aristocracy held onto 90% of the land for so long? Muslim community is an easy target to wag the fingure at. There is no hard evidence that married to cousin causes birth defects. Before picking on Pakistanis just remember that Queen and Prince Phillip are third cousins. Glass houses…stone…. I do not think fingers should be pointed at Pakistani culture; it is another witch hunt against Muslim community. Native English people marry their cousins as well and have done for centuries. British society is ignorant regarding UK law. Henry V111 changed the law so he could marry his cousin. And it still remains legal to marry your cousin in UK today. In Britain, every Pakistani is not a Muslim and neither do they all get married to their cousins. I am sick of British media and politicians like Baroness Ruth Deech and Keighly MP Ann Cryer bashing Muslim communities every day. The hatred towards Muslim communities has grown to a level that defies all logic and even affront to British values. The problem is that Britain has never made communities feel part of British identity and people lives “parallel lives”. Faith schools are part and parcel of British education system but Muslim schools are being discouraged and regarded as “Osama bib Laden Academies. Iftikhar Ahmad http://www.londonschoolofislamics.org.uk
