dodgy fatawa

Discussion in 'Hanafi Fiqh' started by AbdalQadir, Nov 23, 2023.

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  1. Aurangzeb

    Aurangzeb Active Member

    I mean his assessment of the lax attitude towards sacrifice and maintaining one's family amongst the younger ones in the west.

    Considering Shaykh Asrar was born in the UK, attended a public state school and isn't from an affluent or familial scholarly background - as far as I know and he seems to have lots of interaction with people under the age of 40, these to me are strong factors that I would expect him to be able to make a reasonable assessment of the ground realities. Perhaps the Muftis too have their ear to the ground, I don't doubt it in at least some cases.

    Anecdotally I can tell you of case after case of men complaining about not being able to afford to buy a house, to get married, to have children but you see them living their life as though they are already wealthy. Can you believe that six figure earners are also using these fatawa to buy 2nd and third properties apparently as long term investments for their children but short term to build their empires. All the while, where is the investment is Sunni Islamic schools in the UK?

    I respect the efforts of scholars in applying their intellect to arrive at flexibility but I stand by the position that most Muslims are not cut out to live in 'Darul Harb' especially when they can easily move to somewhere like Pakistan or at least move their wives and children there, like in the early days.
     
  2. Umar99

    Umar99 Veteran

    Not everyone lives in an area like yours. Not all young people can get up and move to these towns, nor is there enough space in these towns for all the youth of the UK to settle in them.
     
  3. shahnawazgm

    shahnawazgm Veteran

    Why is it that Shaykh Asrar is the one who is spot on and other muftis who have a different view are incorrect?

    I think we ought to realize differences in opinion which is actually a rehmat for the sunni public. Shaykh Asrar too has the right to his opinion and research on this matter just as other sunni ulema have who have researched based on the ground conditions living in such countries.
     
  4. Aurangzeb

    Aurangzeb Active Member

    Hardly impossible or even very difficult for a young man to buy a house outright with perhaps some small loans from family members. In my area a simple 2 bed terrace can be bought for less than 100k and that is fine for 1 wife and up to 2 children.

    A 21yo graduate can earn around 35k a year as a starting salary and can save that 100k within 5-7 years especially if still living with his parents.

    But young people don't want to save and invest generally speaking. Sacrifice 5 years without eating out, expensive clothes, holidays, latest car, phone etc etc and after those 5 years aim to be earning at least 50k per annum. It can be done with the right mindset.

    Shaykh Asrar is spot on with his assessment.
     
    Ali_Bash likes this.
  5. Witness11

    Witness11 New Member

    What makes you say Shaykh Asrar is out of touch on the ground realities of living in the UK?
     
  6. Alf

    Alf Active Member

    Mufti Nizamuddin Misbahi says business loans from non Muslim owned banks would be allowed if there is zanne ghalib of greater profit (2 times or many times more than the yearly interest amount to be paid to the bank) for the Muslim.
     
  7. Shadman

    Shadman Active Member



    Interestingly found this on Shaikh Asrar Rashid's official channel.
     
  8. sunni_porter

    sunni_porter Well-Known Member

    Really the question is then why live here...
     
    Aurangzeb likes this.
  9. sunni_porter

    sunni_porter Well-Known Member

    This is exactly the conclusion laypeople make. Anyone living and dealing with ground realities will make this conclusion.

    In dar ul harb, the left wing want to steal your iman; and the right wing want to take your life. They are not your friends. What happens if you die? What do you leave behind to your spouse and kids? Our women do not work; so we operate on single incomes in an economy designed for two-income households. Buying a house is a way of preserving capital for emergency situations. If you rent - you benefit kafir landlords;
    if you buy - there is benefit to kafir financial institutions but you benefit as well as you preserve your capital.

    Preserving capital is not the only benefit.

    People need space for elderly relatives, kids, visiting family. If you homeschool your kids, you need space. There are cases of elderly couples facing difficulty in finding rentals due to discrimination from hindu landlords. There are cases where the man has lost his job but he and his family are not on the streets because he has been receiving rental income from renting out his basement, allowing them to pay their monthly expenses and live on a zero/lower income during the difficult time with dignity and without having to send the wife to work to help. There are cases where Muslim landlords benefit their Muslim tenants by charging below-market rent and giving the rental weeks early at no extra charge (which non-Muslim is going to do that for you?).

    And one of the biggest factors to consider is that rent is expensive anyway and can cost more than a mortgage at times (definitely in the long run).

    Extrapolating existing fatwa to investment properties and businesses is logical given you want your children and the wider Muslim community to be established and safeguarded.
     
    Abdullah Ahmed likes this.
  10. sunni_porter

    sunni_porter Well-Known Member

    I have not heard of this being attributed to major ulema; but have seen local alims/learned brothers certainly extrapolate existing fatawa for the purpose of buying investment properties, starting businesses, etc. And they extrapolated after seeing and living ground realities for laypeople, which I think Shaykh Asrar is out of touch on (with respect to housing, cost of living, micro-economics, etc.).
     
  11. sunni_porter

    sunni_porter Well-Known Member

    For example:
    • Ruling on Mortgages in UK?
    • Dealing with Riba Dar al Harb
    • Car finance
    • Islamic banking
    • Financial, dar al-harb and other topics.
    • Mortgage
    • dodgy fatawa
    • Interest / riba / usury
    • How to deal with interest money
    • Bartering, currency, riba, old fashioned, etc.
    • interest in non muslim lands
     
  12. sunni_porter

    sunni_porter Well-Known Member

    Can a subforum under Hanafi Fiqh be opened that focuses on RIBA/interest/finance/economics? There are a few existing threads on this topic. It would make things much more convenient for users if they were all in one place.
     
  13. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    brother Asrar Rashid has said on his telegram channel:

    firstly, what does he refer to when he says 'avoid' in english - what's the shar3iy mustalah? if anyone knows, please advise.

    secondly, my question is on the first point.

    the Hanafi ulama of the subcontinent (Barelwi) of our times, as far as i know, have allowed taking interest based loans in darul harb - not just for mortgages (housing being a necessity), but even for things like starting a business or buying an investment property and so on (luxuries). is this correct? if yes, who are the major fatawa from?

    ---

    don't wanna argue too much about the mechanics of it but apparently their logic is that use the kuffar of darul harb with the rukhsah you have in Hanafi mazhab; basically with the same logic of the western consumer - you got a facility to obtain a necessity/luxury here and now, use it!

    granted, the rukhsah in the Hanafi mazhab is for taking extra on a loan FROM the kuffar, NOT giving TO them, but apparently the logic extends to 'overall benefit' available to the Muslim, as is obvious in the case of mortgages or buying a necessary car on installments in a place where public transport is nonexistent.

    yes, not just Muslims, even many kuffar themselves know the pitfalls of fractional banking and the interest based economic model of capitalist society and how eventually it takes its toll on the consumer, but that's mainly at a general, societal, macroeconomic level and also governmental policy-making level, whereas here we are concerned with the Muslim consumer or Muslim society at the microeconomic level and how best they can use the system

    not counting the directly interest based contracts rampant in Muslim nations amongst Muslims, some even under the garb of 'Islamic' banking; and the fact that it's not viable for the Muslims to be weak economically, which given the system they live in, they most certainly will be if they don't use the existing economic model.
     

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