Does Qur'an in surah tariq Ayat 5-7 say that the sperm:water of human come between ribs& backbone.

Discussion in 'Aqidah/Kalam' started by Mohd Farhan Ali, Apr 3, 2022.

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  1. Mohd Farhan Ali

    Mohd Farhan Ali New Member

    Is anyone here is really helpful
     
  2. Mohd Farhan Ali

    Mohd Farhan Ali New Member

    [
    If you don't have any answer you are just angry and frustrated if you don't know anything don't ANSWER FROM NEXT TIME OKAY.
     
  3. Mohd Farhan Ali

    Mohd Farhan Ali New Member

    Why bro if I have doubts about other topic why are you saying this
    I never said it is wrong don't put words in my mouth I am just asking how to understand the verse in light of sunnah and science
    Okay then this is a Greek believe that the sperm comes from brain and like that that's why I know the sahaba has the greatest knowledge of Quran thats why I am thinking it is not authentic but please tell how to understand and if it is authentic or not I think YOU DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER THATS WHY YOU ARE SUCH A RUDE IN REPLIES AND ASKING ME LEARN WADU WOO.
     
  4. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    if you have no aptitude to understand - nay, have any inkling of human anatomy these discussions are beyond your intelligence. you must spend time learning about things that are obligatory for you before you attempt to understand these complex topics.

    if any half-illiterate troll who comes across an objection on social media and has no clue of basics of islam pops out of nowhere "demanding" answers, he/she should at least demonstrate the ability to understand. you, on the other hand appear to be at the level of a high-school dropout who needs to either spend time learning worldly skills (at least make your duniya better) or join a madrasa to learn the basics of islam.

    so?

    any more posts on this topic will be deleted unless you have demonstrated an understanding of quran hadith tafsir etc and knowledge of human anatomy. if you don't, it will be like a speech made in front of an ox. (bayl ke saamne khutbah padhne ke barabar).

    ---
    here are questions for us to understand your motivation:

    1. what is your belief regarding the verses? do you think that these are wrong (al-iyadhubillah) and are incompatible with 'science'?

    2. what is your belief regarding the statement purported to be attributed to hazrat ibn abbas? what if it is authentic? what will be your response in that case?

    ----
    you can however ask questions like "how to do wudu?" "what are the essentials of wudu?" "what are the conditions that annul wudu" etc.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2022
  5. Mohd Farhan Ali

    Mohd Farhan Ali New Member

    Now please clearfy in chill mood don't be rude and angry I am sunni Barelvi please guide me
     
  6. Mohd Farhan Ali

    Mohd Farhan Ali New Member

    Brother go and read kunzul iman of ala hazrat Hindi translation & tafasir or Urdu also in it he quote this call of Ibn Abbas R.A not from Tanwir Al miqbas min tafasir Ibn Abbas I know it's inauthentic and weak
    SPERM PRODUCED IN TESTICLES AND STORED IN EPIDERMAL TUBE NEAR BLADDER AND DURING EJACULATION THE SEMEN GOES UPTO THE BLADDER AND THEN SPERM MIX WITH PROSTATE GLANDS TO BECOME SEMEN THAT ITS COMES OUT OF PENIS AND I KNOW WHAT YOU WILL SAY ( ABOVE THE BLADER IS BETWEEN BACKBONE ) I JUST WANT TO KNOW ABOUT IBM ABBAS R.A CALL IN KUNZUL IMAN
    Most fabrication or weak except some 100 or so authentic hadith
    Ya please describe in detail brother
    ITS IN TAFASIR OF :---
    ALA HAZRAT KUNZUL IMAN
    TAFASIR IBN ABBAS
    QURTUBI ETC
     
  7. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    the heart is described as a 'pump'. nobody asks them where a motor is, or the electrical source to power this 'pump'.

    a couple of relevant articles are attached in this mail, rosenman's especially.

    so metaphors in medical texts are indispensable, but metaphors in a religious text should be taken literally and according to the dictionaries of our age. amazing double standards!

    https://brill.com/view/title/31104

    https://www.routledge.com/Thinking-...tate-of-the-Art/Bleakley/p/book/9780367224394
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Apr 4, 2022
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  8. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    that is the translation not the qur'an. so you must first ask whether the translation is correct.

    i find it irritating that people expect the qur'an to be outrageously literal but when it comes to science, you can explain it in all kinds of metaphors and analogies.

    is adam's apple a fruit? and if so does it have seeds in it? is it sweet or sour? if not, then why is it an adam's apple?

    ---
    why are you looking for anatomy in the qur'an? however, yes. the qur'an contains everything - even if not everybody is able to understand it.

    here is a question for you: where does the semen come from? please explain in your own words (cut and paste not allowed) after referring to any modern anatomy textbook (or online resource).

    if you don't know, then why are you looking for it in the qur'an?


    what do you know about tafsir of ibn abbas? what is the status of tafsir of SaHabah and which tafsir is considered at the level of marfuu?

    if you are unable to answer this - you are not qualified to ask this question. (now don't google, and if you do, i will have to increase the level of difficulty).

    that which brother AQ said. just believe that the Qur'an is truth and blame your poor understanding or poor interpretation, if it seems to conflict with empirical evidence.

    if you are a bio student, then you should be able to describe male reproductive system. go ahead and answer the question above. where does semen come from?


    ====
    there are a few answers for this objection on the verse, but for the present, we need to stop people from demanding explanations about ships in the desert, and how can such ships move when there is no water in the desert.

    wa billahi't tawfiq.
     
    Mohammed Nawaz, Noori, uk7866 and 2 others like this.
  9. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    i remember an incident some years ago. an acquaintance visited me and began arguing about proof of some mas'alah in hanafi fiqh. incidentally, that mas'alah was well-known and i knew the proofs for that (i don't recall now which mas'alah). instead of giving him answers - to which he would obviously object - i took out all the volumes of al-binayah from my bookshelf and said: 'here. the answer to your question is in this book'.

    he was taken aback and hesitatingly said: i cannot read arabic.
    i replied: then you shouldn't bother with these objections. first gain competence to understand the mas'alah and then we will talk.

    he said: 'but at least tell me which volume'.

    i said: find it out (if you are so smart and oh-so knowledgeable that you wish to fault hanafi imams).
     
    Mohammed Nawaz, Noori, uk7866 and 2 others like this.
  10. Mohd Farhan Ali

    Mohd Farhan Ali New Member

    Bhai jaan ye to kisi Alim moulana ne nahi samjhaya let see the translation " man is created from a gushing fluid that emerges from between ribs and backbone" so questions:-
    1) how you are defining this as in sex act please tell in detail
    2) exactly where does the water of man/women comes according to this ayat please check the details and tell me I want to know this personly please.
     
  11. Mohd Farhan Ali

    Mohd Farhan Ali New Member

    But brother what about the call of Ibn Abbas R.A he is a sahaba if we consider that call then you can also see it not fitting with Science so Frist Question
    1) did Ibn Abbas R.A really said this matlab is it authentic
    2) how to understand it by ala hazrat and current sunni jamat stand on this because all moulana and Alim have VERY DIFFERENT opinion on this that why I am asking What is currently authentic right meaning..
     
  12. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    I thought you'd get it. Anyways, the simplest tafsir for this is that the phrasing of the verse alludes to the man and woman in the sex act (as per Ibn Al-Qayyim Al-Jawziyya if i remember well, but I stand to be corrected on which book of tafsir).

    Meaning you and I don't have to get into the specific details of biochemical and anatomical origins of sperm production based on the science of our times and then trying to impose the science onto Quranic interpretation or vice versa.

    Is he a hindu?

    Why do you "have to" answer him? I mean be brave and confident and question him on the stupidity and absurdity of his mythical mumbo jumbo and the caste system and dowry and sati and so much more. There isn't one thing that's wrong or irrational with hinduism. The entire religion is an overflowing "ganda naala" that you certainly know is only maximum 250 m from any place you might be in UP - even if you're in the Taj Mahal compound!

    Don't be defensive or feel threatened. Don't be an apologetic about Islam bro.

    Even if he isn't hindu, why do you or any Muslim has to feel defensive around such scum? We follow Ala Hazrat and other proud Sunni elders, not scum like Tahirul padri.

    What is he - sikh, Christian, atheist? What's the market value of their rubbish beliefs and just how rational, logical, and consistent are they? And yet they have the gall to question Islam! And Muslims getting on the defensive in front of such morons should be an absolute no-go area.

    Kafirs bring up all these topics only to avoid any discussion on Tawhid or kalam, where they know they will look like utter idiots if they talk about it.

    If you're not well versed with aqaid and kalam, like @Khanah said on the other thread, best is to not entertain these Islamophobes and other bhakts.
     
  13. Mohd Farhan Ali

    Mohd Farhan Ali New Member

    Yea bro one of my islamohobe friend ask this question I have to answer and no critic on ala hazrat astagfirullah he is a scientist also remember" stationary earth " and i want to to the real meaning of this verse with both Islam and science angle
    Can you please explain in detail because I am bio student and my friend to that why it effecting me
     
  14. Mohd Farhan Ali

    Mohd Farhan Ali New Member

    Yea bro one of my islamohobe friend ask this question I have to answer and no critic on ala hazrat astagfirullah he is a scientist also remember" stationary earth " and i want to to the real meaning of this verse with both Islam and science angle
     
  15. Mohd Farhan Ali

    Mohd Farhan Ali New Member

    Using mobile bro
     
  16. Mohd Farhan Ali

    Mohd Farhan Ali New Member

    Bro me ala hazrat ko wali Manta hu me ale HADEES deobandi nahi na islamohobe but please solve this issue
     
  17. Mohd Farhan Ali

    Mohd Farhan Ali New Member

    Brother i am sunni Barelvi from uttarpradesh India
    And astagfirullah I am not a Islamophobe i am just clearing my doubt because some Islam enemy attack on this issue
     
  18. Mohd Farhan Ali

    Mohd Farhan Ali New Member

     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2022
  19. Mohd Farhan Ali

    Mohd Farhan Ali New Member

     
  20. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    Can you firstly introduce yourself, as in are you a subcontinental? Sunni (Barelwi), deobandi, confused neutral etc.?

    I ask because you straight away come with probing questions on Ala Hazrat's stances. One could assume you're deobandi under taqiyya, but some of your tags are annoying to the extent of sounding like it's coming from a closet Islamophobe. InshaAllah you're neither of those, but still an introduction is good.

    Secondly, write properly spaced out paragraphs and well punctuated, coherent sentences; and don't say you can't find your way around the text editor box. If that's the case, learn basic computing and word processing too.

    What is your aim for these questions - you wanna debate an Islamophobe or debate a critic of Ala Hazrat, or just wanna know Ala Hazrat's positions on this verse (and the other verse on the other thread)?

    The simplest tafsir is that it (fluid emerges from between ribs and backbone) is kinayah for a man and woman engaged in the process of conceiving.

    If you wanna engage with Islamophobes or something, you can take the 'science' angle for other verses where more directly empiricist wording is used, like 88:17 for instance.
     

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