Idiotic eshaykh answers

Discussion in 'Aqidah/Kalam' started by AbdalQadir, Jun 3, 2015.

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  1. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    tahir never claimed to have sat in a classroom.

    he claims that he was personally tutored by Imam e Azam, and As-Suyuti, for roughly 20 years, and that he routinely receives abundant spiritual blessings from Ghawth e Azam - all in his dreams. i don't know what daleels he presented to Imam e Azam in his dream when he disagreed with him on the diyat issue. he hasn't shared them with the rest of the world either!

    i don't know if gibril too has such fantastic dreams of Imam Shafi3i teaching him to fall back on, but dreams have already started to be narrated on eshaykh about people seeing nazim.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2015
  2. shahnawazgm

    shahnawazgm Veteran

    The sentence is similar to the one Dr Padri gave when he claimed that if he weren't sunni then no woman has ever given birth to a sunni! I wonder if they attend the same classrooms....

    Anyway by putting an "if" in typical nazimite fashion he has managed to deflect himself from falling into trouble for that statement....
     
  3. Aqib alQadri

    Aqib alQadri Veteran

    "If all this is not what can be justly described as characteristic of a wali Allah, then Allah has no awliya."

    That is a worse claim; opposing the Holy Qur'an.
     
  4. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    from the link - http://eshaykh.com/sufism/the-claim-that-shaykh-nazim-is-infallible/
    that underlined part is pure gold! pull numbers out of thin air, they work wonders for your credibility.
     
  5. shahnawazgm

    shahnawazgm Veteran

    Found this reply by GF Haddad http://eshaykh.com/sufism/the-claim-that-shaykh-nazim-is-infallible/

    Mr haddad is apparently claiming that his shaykh never claimed that his sins are no longer being recorded and these are lies being spread by his enemies! In fact he even goes on to state that Nazim never even claimed wilaya himself (whereas in the youtube video he has claimed both)!

    I really do not understand the extent that Haddad will go to defend his shaykh in spite of the evidence being in the open (while at the same time he will attempt to embrace the ahle biddah claiming them to only hold minor differences)!
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2015
  6. Aqib alQadri

    Aqib alQadri Veteran

    yes we know this; but who wants to argue with e-idiots? for the argument will go on ad nauseam & they will only advance in their heresy.
     
  7. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    then pen is lifted if he is senile. because of the hadith: "the pen is lifted from three: one who is in sleep, one who is insane and the child who hasn't reached puberty".

    http://www.archive.org/download/waq37071/37071.pdf



    Allah ta'ala knows best.
     
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  8. shahnawazgm

    shahnawazgm Veteran

    Guys, lets not start debating about this layman whom I happened to meet last year. He is far down the food chain in this group to even take seriously. The whole point of providing this example was to highlight the mental state of these people as they are receiving improper information/guidance from misguided people. Time spent in the company of proper ulema would have been much more beneficial!

    The answer provided by eshaykh to the questioner would no doubt only misguide the questioner further. And to those who state that its only the western laymen followers around these people that behave like this - then what would they reply to the senior most people in this group (including the ones that provide fatawa on eshaykh)? And then what about the senior most khulafa who make heretic claims that (Nauzubillah) Allah Ta'ala took the soul of their late master with his own hands! And what would they then respond about the numerous absurd claims and antiques of their own late shaykh? An example would be this video

    which has already been discussed on this site where their late shaykh admits that he has lost it! And then why would a "sultan-ul-awliya" who was greater than the ghaus of the time (p.s. as claimed by his senior most khulafa) feel the need to do bayah on the hands of the fasiq/heretic king of jordan as in here


    Just imagine if this group would have stuck to the correct path of the Ahle Sunnat then how much good would they have achieved for this ummah considering the number of followers they have. Then we would all have been praising them instead of the need to refuting these people now and again.

    Finally I would also acknowledge the mistakes that I have made in the clarity of my earlier post and I would have liked to rephrase a few sentences but was too late to edit (was quickly typed in my mobile which makes it difficult to review).

    @Aqib Janaab... We all know that Hazrat Umar Farooq (RA) also wished for those moments in the cave and was willing to sacrifice his entire worship for the sake of a night of the cave. Then this layman tries to teach me that their Haqqani silsila shaykhs were present there (though in spiritual form only) and got this faiz as well (which obviously the next best of this ummah after Huzoor Abu Bakr Siddique (RA) aspired to get) when it is well known that this incident is a special privilege to Siddique-e-Akbar (RA) as proven from the verse of the Quran. You are Mashallah one of the most knowledgeable brothers here and I was not trying to give any sort of fatawa as I am not at all qualified to give one but was just trying to demonstrate my point.
     
  9. Brother Barry

    Brother Barry Veteran

    Here's another twisted logic answer by Mr Haddad

    Question:

    Salam, Dear Shaykh,What is the opinion of scholars about the person (claims to be Muslim) who says following:

    “I think all religions have the same source. They lead to the same source. All religions basically talk about compassion and about justice, which is basically what differentiates from the animal kingdom… And in my opinion, all the Prophets sent by The Almighty on this earth delivered the same message. And basically the core message of religions is the same. And so, you know, we should respect each other’s religion. There should not be a competition. People should be each to his own. And I find this religious nationalism basically against the ethos of religion, of spirituality. And I find that, you know, when one religion tries to condemn another religion and tries to say that one is superior to the other, I think that’s where the problems begin.”

    Wa-Salam.

    Answer:

    Alaykum Salam, All religions do have the same source and do lead back to the same source; they do talk about compassion and justice; all the Prophets did deliver essentially the same message so that the core message of religions is indeed the same. In Islam it is impermissible to disagree with any of the preceding.

    We must respect others but wrong-doers deserve no respect. We do compete in goodness and for goodness. Religion is not exclusively a private matter; it is also a public matter; we do not lose the balance. Nationalism is indeed separate from the ethos of religion and spirituality, and can definitely be against that ethos.

    There is no such thing in reality as “one religion trying to condemn another religion” because in reality religion is one and it is surrender to the Almighty; however, mutual condemnation or competition in worldly terms is exactly that. It is from world-oriented discourse even when it claims to be speaking in the name of religion. It is anti-religion in the disguise of religion since the net result is to drive people away from religion.

    Hajj Gibril Haddad

    http://eshaykh.com/uncategorized/all-religions/

    ------------

    So Mr Haddad believes all religions have the same source and lead back to the same source and the core message of all religions in his view is the same.

    Islam leads to salvation and if we go by his understanding it would mean that all other religions lead to that also as he believes the core message & source is the same so therefore I assume his painting a picture of the net result being the same regardless of what faith u belong to.
     
  10. Brother Barry

    Brother Barry Veteran

    In my view this is a prime example of the types of pickles these guyes get into due to their over zealous Pir/Tareeqa promotions.
     
  11. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    "two companions" could be a poorly worded description to mean companions of each other; it would be a stretch to mean that companions here means "saHabi" unless of course, the person asserts thus.

    Allah ta'ala knows best.
     
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  12. Abu Hamza

    Abu Hamza Hanafi-Maturidi

    Perhaps, but the counter argument would be that the pure souls roam freely ONLY when their souls have been extracted from their bodies, prior to that they reside in aa'la mul arwah, and with regards to doing qiyas with angels this wouldn't be valid since that is somthing that is established from Qur'an, (kira man katibeen) is just one example. Whatever the case may be, the claim that the souls of "sufi shuyukh" were present is absurd.

    Allah knows best
     
  13. Aqib alQadri

    Aqib alQadri Veteran

    this is a worse claim.
     
  14. Aqib alQadri

    Aqib alQadri Veteran

    Nazimites can say "we only said the 'souls' were present - just like the Angels were. we never said about the bodies being present".

    they have other ridiculous claims too. but I suggest not to be hasty in passing fatwas.
     
  15. FaqirHaider

    FaqirHaider اللَه المقدر والعالم شؤون لا تكثر لهمك ما قدر يكون

    @shahnawazgm
    No since I have never been to Hajj nor Umrah , and in guessing the person who with you was from UK, honestly UK laymen are pretty much oblivious , same for the US, to the real principles of Naqshbandi tariqah.

    I have seen the situation here and it break my heart, it is as brothers have termed on this forum "mureed-syndrome." Those events which transpired which brought confusion to me , I had to see full picture and and know the inner details from private lectures to clear my doubts.

    I myself am part of the tariqah of my late Shaykh Nazim but I would not ascribe myself as a nazimite as I would surely uphold my fiqh (Hanafi), sharia, and aqeedah ( accordingly to the illustrious star Imam Ahmad Ridha Khan Fa'izi Al Brelwi r.a) but since his passing, I am in need of a new shaykh. I have overtly observed the "Hal" , of the psuedo sufi lifestyles and I have read the article terming is neo-sufi.
     
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  16. Abu Hamza

    Abu Hamza Hanafi-Maturidi

    Likewise, my post wasn't aimed at you either, i know what you're getting at, it was just in case somebody else took another meaning from it.

    Allah knows best.
     
  17. shahnawazgm

    shahnawazgm Veteran

    I never thought you were a nazimite, my post was addressed to them. And I never meant Allah Taalah to be in the cave, Astaghfirullah. Tried to edit my post so that it may not sound like that but unfortunately I'm too late to edit it!
     
  18. Abu Hamza

    Abu Hamza Hanafi-Maturidi

    I commented because of the wording you used and no other reason "along with Allah Taalah of course" - of course the verse "do not grieve verily Allah is with us" - the two (Sayyiduna Rasul'Allah Sallalahu Alayhi wa Salam and Sayyiduna Siddique Radi'Allahu Anh were physically present in the cave. Imam Suyuti mentions in Jalalayn next to "(Allah) is with us" (بنصره - with his help).

    It was just to remove any misconceptions that's all.

    P.S, I'm not a nazimite (Alhumdulillah)
     
  19. shahnawazgm

    shahnawazgm Veteran

    There were two in the cave as per the Quran! What is the ruling on the one who would make people believe otherwise and follow their own conjecture?

    PS to Nazimites. I am fully aware that there will be a whole bunch of you who will be very much upset! If there is any more of this hidden knowledge exclusive to your group then please do share.

    @FaqirHaider - no one here is denying the hidden knowledge given to awliya. If a pseudo Sufi adds Naqshbandi to his name that doesn't actually make him one! Was it you with me on the trip last year by any chance?
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2015
  20. Abu Hamza

    Abu Hamza Hanafi-Maturidi

    @shahnawazgm
    This is blatant kufr against the explicit Quranic verse which states that Rasulullah (saws) and Hazrat Abu Bakr Siddique (ra) were the two present at that time (along with Allah Taalah of course)

    ??
     

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