It is him!

Discussion in 'Hadayiq e Bakhshish' started by edhi92, Nov 15, 2013.

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  1. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    unless alahazrat himself used it in those terms or huzur mufti a'azam hind did, i would not use it.

    Allah ta'ala knows best.
  2. There is no issue with using the word in Urdu we read the following in our shajarah sharif every day

    Saaya e jumlah mashaaikh ya Khuda ham par rahe,
    Reham farma Aale Rahmaa(n) Mustafa ke waaste.

    Shajrah Qadria Barkatia Rizvia Mustafawia
  3. I have a clear copy I will try to get it scanned in sha Allah Tabaarak wa Ta'ala
  4. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    the risalah of alahazrat: al-istimdad ala ajyali'l irtidad is rarely available. here is a copy, but the annotations are practically unreadable. though if you stare hard and do some guesswork, you can get through it.

    does anyone have a better copy? if not, can anyone scan it?

    REMEMBER that alahazrat did not say aal-e-rahman(in the farsi/urdu construct) but rather Aal-ur-Rahman in the arabic mode.

    Last edited: Jun 15, 2012
  5. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    thanks akhi jazak Allah khayr. just needed clarification, not doubting Ala Hazrat or anything sinister.

    i'm aware of ahluAllah in Arabic and was suspecting it would be in this vicinity, i was unaware of the aal usage in that context in Arabic and was thinking perhaps in Urdu its even more restrictive along the lines of ibn/abnaa
  6. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    and, yes. one more thing: in mufradat of imam raghib, the second entry clearly says that aal is used with superior and great and not with something lesser and ordinary.

    so you don't say: aalu khayyaT (the people belonging to the tailor) or aalu kuufa (people of kufa); in these cases ahl is correct. but in case of ashraf-afDal, like:
    [quote mufradat] it is said: aalu Allah, aalu sulTan and ahl is used with everything; therefore it is also said: ahlu Allah, ahlu khayyaT as it is said ahlu zaman (people of the age)...[/ quote]
  7. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    actually, aal is a contraction of ahl (أهل) or awl (أول). apparently, its taSghir was uhayl (أهيل) which eventually became (أال) and contracted to aal (آل)

    it is said that ahl is generic (belonging to / aam) and aal is special (belonging to / khaaS)

    meaning: 'belonging to' or 'followers' or 'close to' or 'friends of'

    as it is said in the verses 2:49, 2:50, 3:11, 7:130, 7:141, 8:52, 8:54.

    وَإِذْ نَجَّيْنَٰكُم مِّنْ آلِ فِرْعَوْنَ يَسُومُونَكُمْ

    mufassirin overwhelmingly agree that it means : ahl-firawn, meaning followers of firawn or his supporters. it is well-known, that firawn, did not have any sons of his own.

    there are shawahid from hadith too. when asked, about his 'aal' RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam said: 'every pious man is my aal'. it is obvious that every pious is not a descendant of RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam.

    similarly, "salman, is from our aal." that is, close to us and belongs to us.

    qurtubi says:
    «آل فرعون» قومه وأتباعه وأهل دينه. وكذلك آل الرسول صلى الله عليه وسلم من هو على دينه وملّته في عصره وسائر الأعصار؛ سواء كان نسيباً له أو لم يكن. ومن لم يكن على دينه وملّته فليس من آله ولا أهله، وإن كان نسيبَه وقريبَه.
    "the aal of firawn" are his people, his followers, those who believed in his religion. similarly the aal of Rasul sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam are those who are upon his religion, his community - whether in his own time or any other age. regardless of whether they are related to him (by descent) or not. and whosoever is not upon his religion and community is neither from his aal (people) nor from his ahl (household) even if they are his relatives or kin.
    does the phrase: ahlu Allah sound odd to you? if not, then aalu Allah should not, as it is the same meaning.

    the phrase aalullahi wa rasulihi means, 'friends of Allah and His messenger' as described in taj al-arus.

    imam razi in his tafsir of s2:v49 says:

    وحُكي عن أبي عبيدة أنه سمع فصيحاً يقول: أهل مكة آل الله

    it is narrated that abu ubaydah heard an eloquent person say: the people of makkah are the beloved ones of Allah.

    imam izz ibn abdu's salam said in the tafsir of the same verse:
    والآل والأهل سواء

    aal and ahl are the same.

    abu hayyan, who is a famous imam of arabic as well, in his tafsir, bahr al-muHit (and so also zabidi in taj al-arus) cites the usage of aal from a poet:
    نحن آل اللَّه في بلدتنا لم نزل آلا على عهد ارمwe are the people of Allah in our cities...
    and of course, there is imam zabidi mentioning aalu Allahi wa Rasulihi as : people of Allah and His Messenger. and those who aid his religion and that is why the grandfather of RasulAllah sallALlahu alayhi wa sallam said during the event of the attack of the elephants:

    give aid upon the people of the cross and its worshippers
    on this day, (for) your people (your worshippers).

    it is also said that reciters of qur'an were called as: 'ahlullah'. see the included image.

    there is a reason why alahazrat used it, and in sha Allah, i will try to explain it later.

    Allah ta'ala knows best.

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jun 13, 2012
    Shahzaib likes this.
  8. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    can brother abu hasan please explain this properly to someone like me.

    Ala Hazrat and Mufti A3zdham both have prohibited people from saying "Allah miyan" because the word "miyan" does have bad meanings too. and even for the Prophet, 3alaihis salam, they forbid from using words that have both good and bad meanings, even if one's intention is good and rule that one should stay on the side of caution!

    my urdu ain't superb but even if i am to assume that "aal" has another meaning other than lineage/progeny and they meant that for Ar-Rahman, Allah Ta3ala, it would still go against their own fatawa! i don't know the full context and explanation, so i'd appreciate it.
  9. chisti-raza

    chisti-raza Veteran

    Aqdas is correct. Aal e Rahman Mustafa ke Waaste!
  10. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    you sure brother?

    what does aal mean in urdu other than lineage?
  11. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    aal e raHman
  12. You mean keh do Raza
  13. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    i don't think it's in hadayiq. it may be from al-istimdad where i believe alaHazrat has written about mawlana fazle rasul badayuni and khulafa and students.

    i will have to dig out more information about al-istimdad.
  14. is it in hadaayiq? i have the book in front of me and cannot find it! the lack of any contents page or index doesn't help and i looked under all the radif of 'noon' and its not there either!!!

    great naat though.
  15. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    truly sublime

    there aren't enough superlatives that can amply describe this na'at. sidi aH always complains that those who belittle alaHazrat are most likely the same people who have never read his works!

    listen to this magnificent na'at without bias and then judge our master radiyAllahu ta'ala anhu.
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2008
  16. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

  17. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    yes thats the one!

    i think alaHazrat wrote it in al-istimdad. he wrote about some of his khulafa and students.

    i read that he mentions them all separately but with mufti burhan ul haq and mufti e a'zam, he mentions them in the same stanza.

    alaHazrat doesnt use muSTafa raza but uses a laqab which i cant remember
  18. edhi92

    edhi92 New Member

    Meray Zafar ko ...

    Ive read it in Hayat-e-Ala'Hazrat By Malik-ul-Ulama, He wrote:

    Meray Zafar ko Apni Zafar dein
    Inn se Shikastain Khaatay yeh hain
  19. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    if you haven't read this poem, then scroll up and do so!
  20. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    Subhan Allah! Masha Allah! Barak Allah!

    When Qari 'Ali Muhammad of Birmingham recites this na'at, it is absolutely amazing!

    Imam Ahmad Rida fana fi'r Rasool.

    Is this na'at in the third volume of Hadayiq Sharif?

    Also, I heard a similar poem where Imam Ahmad Rida mentions his fellow ulema/students and it ends with the same words ye haiN.

    I think it's mere zafar ko ......... zafar de
    ............................................ ye haiN

    about Mufti Zafaruddin and he also mentions others. It is in one of his books. Is it al-Istimdad?
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2006

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