Itni na badha pakiye damaaN ki Hikayat

Discussion in 'Refutation' started by sunnistudent, Nov 3, 2014.

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  1. sunnistudent

    sunnistudent Veteran

    I do not like to play " link link", where in you post a link to a book and then I post another link refuting the first book. This is a forum where we can discuss and learn. If one feels his standing is not correct, he should not feel any ego in changing his stance.

    As far as your link with the article entitled " Itna na badha pakiya daaman ki hikayat", please be informed that I received this article the day it was released. I have the fatwa which is mentioned in that article. Simple thing for me would be to post a link to another article in which all these points have been answered long back. Here is the link

    http://www.slideshare.net/sunnicreative/do-haqiqat-afrozebaraten-26-feb?


    But I do not like this methodology of pasting link without actually quoting your point from the link. You posted a link , why did you not quote a few things from there so that those who do not know Urdu can get some ( if not all) idea about it? Since you did not do it, I shall do it.

    The biggest objection on Mawlana Yaseen Akhtar Misbahi's book is this passage :

    [ Quick English Translation because I just arrived home]

    Now a day those people who have scarce knowledge, reading and observation (experience) have understood that in your speeches and lectures unless you refute elders of the firqa e batila (wrong or deviated sect) by uttering khabees, mardood and kafir and murtad you have not fulfilled any duty of refuting these sects. These people should remove their [this] misunderstanding and adopt a correct method and methodology to refute the deviant sects so that the truth and view of ahlus sunnah is made clear and the deviancy of the deviant sects becomes clear like sun.[ Irfan e mazhab wa maslab, Author: Mawlana Yaseen Akhtar Misbahi, p 93, 3e]

    Those who made accusations that the book ' Irfan e Mazhab wa maslak' promotes sulah kulliyat, were asked to bring sharii evidence. So the reply was that the above passage is promoting sulah kulliyat . This all happened in the last week of January 2014.

    Mawlana Yaseen Akhtar Misbahi replied to these 'doubts' and accusation in a very clear and academic manner. The reply can be read here:

    http://www.slideshare.net/sunnicreative/do-haqiqat-afrozebaraten-26-feb?

    Please note the reply was made on 26 Feb 2014

    Mawlana Yaseen Akhtar Misbahi made it very clear that he is not against refuting, he is only asking the method of refutation to be changed . To prove that it is not necessary to call 'kafir kafir' in every gathering, he quotes this from Bahar e shariat:

    Now a days there are those who say’ In the amount of time you spend calling him a kafir, it is better you spend it in the remembrance of Allah, as this is deserving of reward’. In response to this, it must be said:


    “Where do you find us compelling people to chant kafir, kafir all day long? The actual aim of what we are saying is that a kafir should be regarded as a kafir and if asked regarding such a person, it should be clearly declared that he is a kafir”. This does not mean that you should hide his kufr by way of your ‘sulah kul’ (corrupt compromising policy)


    [ Bahar e shariat, Vol 1. p 55, Farooqia Book Depot, Delhi] This can be read on page 3 of the above article linked by me.

    Please note this portion of Bahar e shariat has approval of Ala Hazrat
    My question is :

    When the reply was made on 26 Feb 2014 , why is that again the same issued and doubt is raised in an article written on 16 October 2014? If you ( or any one else ) think that this is not a proper answer , then prove it.

    The book Irfan e Mazhab wa maslak is online. If you wish you can read it and present your arguments in simple English.

    If you are relying on some one else's reply, then be assured, everything has been answered in a very very decent and academic manner.

    Please be specific about the quote. Like page no so and so such and such statement is promoting sulah kulliyat. In sha Allah it will be discussed.

    If you post "link" then we are not reaching anywhere. You read any book you want, contact any scholar you want. But on forum present your point in simple words.
     
    AbdalQadir and Haqbahu like this.
  2. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    i'm not the most lovable person on this forum and my opinion won't matter to a lot, but i too quickly read this book down to page 16. abu hasan beat me to it, but this is my feedback -

    the author doesn't have any basic understanding of mantiq and/or usool. the caliber of his mantiq and/or usool as displayed in that piece is the level of - take your pick

    1. gossip sections of tabloid magazines
    2. similar to the mainstream kafir media's mantiq when bashing Islam and Muslims
    3. similar to the idiot deobandi's mantiq and usool displayed on this blog - http://barelwism.wordpress.com/
    4. similar to the mantiq of bollywood stars when they talk of religion and spirituality
    5. finally, typical UP/bihar senseless and logic-less netagiri (people might think, i'm copying abu hasan, but the very first words that came to my mind after reading the "treatise" was "typical senseless UP-wala attitude". i have a license to say it coz i'm UP-wala myself)

    ------

    his emotional blackmails are childish, nonsensical, and wahabiite! with his usool, mantiq, and wahabiite emotional blackmails, deobandis could easily "refute" and "rebuttle" 60% of Fatawa Ridawiyyah in half a day, over a cup of coffee!

    to give you a duniyawi example of his childish emotional balckmails-

    let's say a congress politician says - some cops in india take bribes

    a bjp politician jumps on that general statement - did you do tahqeeq? how dare you? didn't you feel ashamed labeling some of your fellow countrymen as ghooskhor's? why don't you name them? etc. etc. etc.

    that's exactly what the author was doing in that piece.

    just as an example, if Yaseen Akhtar Sab says "some people don't rebuke the deobandis properly" the author lashes out with "how dare you say this about some of your brothers? this is all based on hearsay". in fact he goes a step ahead and asks for names and so on.

    no one ever taught him about speaking generically.

    Fatawa Ridawiyya is also full of fatwa on "some people who do zina" or "some people who drink" etc. etc. Ala Hazrat's fatwa on reformer and leaders of british india (where i think he didn't mention them by name, but just by their activities) could be refuted just as badly as Yaseen Akhtar Sahib's book, with this author's logic and emotional blackmails!

    according to him, if i say "some people are idiots and give Sunniyat a bad name", he will come back at me saying this is all based on hearsay and i am guilty of spreading rumors against some of my brethren for being idiots and giving Sunniyat a bad name!

    ------

    another drawback is that with that book he is unwittingly teaching the awam to not even criticize addressing groups of people generically.

    a novice or a kid can easily be led to believe that it is bad to talk about "some people who gamble" or it can even be used as a daleel for mark hanson's theology "we are theologically forbidden to talk about some people who worship ganesha"

    ------

    in short, it's a waste of computer memory. it would be a crime against Sunni-kind to print it on paper. it's not worth the paper it's written on!

    the author should be told to join a wahabi forum on the internet, where he might find a niche following! i've seen better temper tantrums on online forums!
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2014
  3. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    i am extremely busy for a few days, but i couldn't contain my curiosity and first four pages of the book and his first accusation on mawlana yasin akhtar on p3.

    ---
    it is a ridiculous accusation and the author does not seem to understand basic urdu nor seems to have a grasp of common logic. if it is not ignorance, then it is extreme prejudice, ta'SSub to purposely distort a harmless sentence into a grotesque picture. if this is the level of scholarship we have to expect from 'muftis', i shudder to think what will happen to sunnis in the coming days.

    ---
    i don't see anything wrong with this statement of mawlana yasin. and i have grown up in an environment where we saw masjid after masjid fall to deobandis and sulh-kullis because of one "shola-bayan" muqarrir who had nothing to say to the congregation for years except the "radd" he had memorised in his early years. except for bad-mouthing the deobandis, you couldn't expect anything from him. after being kicked out from masjids routinely, and losing our major masajid to deobandi imams - he finally started a business with a deobandi partner!!

    after his exit, within a few years, sunnis wrested back masajid from others, and brought back sunni imams (yes, including UP/bihar maulvis) with no-nonsense instructions that juma'a khutbas should be free from name-calling and abusing.

    sunnis in our towns have become so tired of UP/bihar maulvis in the south and their politics that people are afraid to deal with them. there was a time when they were highly respected and considered as stars, valued high above local ulama, but things have come to this nowadays. btw, i don't harbour any ill-will towards UP/bihar ulama, nor do i agree with generalisation; my own teacher was from UP - and our imam alahazrat is also from UP.

    ---
    this is an exercise for everyone here (unbeknown, try it) to identify bad reasoning. this is mawlana yasin's statement (cited in the same book) and follow his critic's analysis (linked in the firstpost) - point out his (critic's) poor reasoning.

    exc.jpg


    ====

    na cheRo dard mandoN ko, na jane dil se kya nikle...
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2014
    AbdalQadir and Aqdas like this.
  4. inquisitive

    inquisitive Well-Known Member

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