Discussion in 'General Topics' started by Surati, Dec 6, 2021.

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  1. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    A page from the book (one of the books?) which was/is supposed to be included in the public school curriculum in Michigan and caused Muslims to protest against teaching LGBT porn in schools.

  2. Hanafi Sunni

    Hanafi Sunni Well-Known Member

  3. Hanafi Sunni

    Hanafi Sunni Well-Known Member

    It's getting worse. We need ulama and awaam (parents) to interact on how to tackle this. If "imams" like these come out full force on youtube then the the youth will be done for in the near future.

    "His been to Mecca 5 times for hajj in order to get close to Allah and his family have grown to accept him"

    Allah protect us from this fitna.
  4. Surati

    Surati Well-Known Member

    Been reading about the backlash JK Rowling has been getting because of speaking out against transgenders and it’s frankly concerning.

    Today is Detransawareness day and a lot of people are sharing their testimonials online and most seem to have made that choice when they were in their teens (someone was even 14) and someone mentioned how her school encouraged it. Some clinics are even doing irreversible surgeries at 12 years old.

    I have kids in that age bracket and concerned that they are being fed this rhetoric at school. Really hope that our Ulama start speaking about these topics or madrasahs start to tackle this issue. As a parent, there is only so much I can do.
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2022
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  5. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    second, third, fourth generations? how many is 'many' as in percentage? i'm just curious.
  6. Juwayni

    Juwayni Veteran

    Don't have the book, don't know the details of what's in it. Yes Habib Umar contributed to it.

    How difficult would it be for our grads and scholars to write such a book when you have Malays for whom English isn't their mother tongue do these kinds of relevant works?

    Attached Files:

  7. Shu’ayb Idrees

    Shu’ayb Idrees New Member

    We should also consider Da’wah in our own mirpuri/potwari language, or even teaching fard uloom in these languages, all our youngsters may not get around Urdu but many are well aware of there own aapni lingo.
  8. Taftazani

    Taftazani New Member

    100% Agree. Very well said.
  9. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    Their internal disputes notwithstanding, do you guys have a lot of young english speaking shuyukh like Shahid Ali or Asrar Rashid? As an outsider, before their dispute, I only knew of Asrar Rashid, and after it, Shahid Ali too.

    I'm sure you'll also have a ton of young huffaz (not full on scholars) who speak english and also know proper tajweed and know enough to guide kids at basic levels.

    They can also be given opportunities (alongside training from seniors) to guide kids. I dunno if we Sunnis have our own version of a boy scouts.

    In my experience though, I'll tell you this much from what I've seen some other places in the west. The 'true blue', so to say, Urdu/Punjabi speaking ulama see english speaking shuyukh as a major threat to their statuses, and also as second class desis (probably justified) and second class Sunnis (not justified).

    Therefore, they promote and portray them as sidekicks with themselves being godfathers. They will not express it in words, but in action they will propagate - this young english speaking mawlana is my assistant, for any issue, religious, or relating to mosque committee or funds, or any xyz matter, my word is final.

    If at all any such people have studied with Arab shyukh and are proficient in Arabic and well read and well connected with Arabs or Turks, immediately the inferiority complex of the desi seniors gets triggered when they see they cannot even read the Fatiha as nicely as this young speaker.

    They get annoyed or feel intensely threatened, when this young english speaking mawlana holds knowledge-centered study circles and cites anything outside of the standard masala mix of naatkhwani, fazail, karaamaat, and wahabi/devbandi bashing. Allah forbid should he cite Sarkhasi or broaden the students' horizons by Imam Ghazali's opinion on a matter from the Shafi3i pov, or even give an opinion from Abu Yusuf even within Hanafis. This poor whitewashed half firangi doesn't even know Ajalla Al-I3lam; how utterly disssgusting!

    It won't be long before they will either try to recruit him as their sidekick or token english speaker, or try to sabotage him as a sulah kulli.

    For these kind of oldies, LGBTQ is haram because 'Quran and Sunnah say so'. While that is indeed the case, they're incapable of discussion on the gay movement and its evil strategies and tactics, gender theory, gender dysphoria, legal and political issues surrounding the LGBTQ movement, etc. all such discourse surrounding this evil.

    One could argue we don't need to dive into all that filth and a one liner 'Quran and Sunnah command us with such and such' would suffice.

    Yes, it would, to someone living in 1920.

    To such people, i would like to ask them why hold Khatme Nubuwwat courses, conferences, seminars and so on? Isn't a one liner 'Quran says so' sufficient there too?

    In short, we need to come to grips with the times we're living in.

    What I've seen as the difference between senior wahabis and us is that they see their young scholars/speakers (english speaking, uni grads, professionals in careers, abcd's etc) as assets to their movement, and play on the strengths of those young scholars.

    Our seniors see our young scholars/speakers as competition within our movement, and try to pull them down on their real or perceived weaknesses, lest they promote their peer-shop!

    Allah knows best.
    Ghulam Ali, Bazdawi, Shadman and 3 others like this.
  10. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    Until our kids stop attending state schools, these things will keep getting worse. The real answer is Islamic schools.

    But until Sunnis can do that,

    1. The 5-7pm madrasah system needs to be strong.
    2. Parents need to know the answers to all these problems.
    3. Home environment must be Islamic.

    Evening madrasahs must have qualified teachers who teach in English. Native speakers who understand the culture in the UK.

    This way, kids won't see the masjid as inferior to school. They'll soon realise that, 'hey, hold on, my masjid teacher is actually smarter than my school teacher.'

    Sunni tabligh needs to be in English by young speakers who've gone through the same system as these kids and know the challenges.
    Unbeknown likes this.
  11. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    what I personally miss in most of our discussions and discourses and complaints and celebrations is the big picture perspective.

    there's the majority who just don't care and there is the minority who's supposed to make them care.

    But most "re-orientationists" seem to be preoccupied with tiny bits of the jig-saw - not the whole puzzle.

    What I would love to see - and perhaps what would draw in the disinterested - is a big picture view, progressively narrowed down to the topic at hand - each and every time.

    Why should I come to your talk? Why should I follow you on social media? What value do you add to my life, my world?

    These are important questions that everyone of the educators must try to address, every time they get a chance.

    And for that they need to be in touch with the times - it's shallow pretences as well as its deep sicknesses.

    Perhaps we need Ihya-al-Uloom 2.0...
  12. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    I saw a post about ulama discussing why our propagation isn't effective.

    Firstly, you speak in Urdu.

    Wake up.
  13. Surati

    Surati Well-Known Member

    I’m frankly worried for kids nowadays and the generations to come; kuffar kids have no morals or values.

    They are pro everything haram (drugs, alcohol, pornography, dating, clubbing, ‘sleepovers’). They have no haya: in the UK unisex changing rooms are now becoming a thing. They also don't think they need to care and look after their parents when they become old. Disrespect to parents and elders is common.

    Teenage girls (Muslim) fight and use foul language in school, will never even consider living with in-laws, don’t want to have kids and are pro abortion.
  14. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    1468310798523064320 is not a valid tweet id

    this is the direct result of following "shuyukh" like ali jifry, mark hanson, bin bayyah, tahirul, faraz rabbani, nuh keller, faisal kutty, tim winters et al

    teaching little children riddah

    ps. it seems thats a devbandi criticizing other devbandis.
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2021
  15. Khanah

    Khanah Well-Known Member

    I know non muslims who have tried it to seemingly great success. Home schooled children usually have much better behaviour, better educational outcomes, less likely to commit crimes and the like.

    Read homeschooling for excellence, dumbing us down and there are probably a few other good books out there
  16. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    Muslims challenged on LGBT could say:

    If they have the freedom to believe and do as they wish, why don't I?

    Why are you curtailing my freedoms? I am not forcing my view on them so why are they upon me?

    I'm not coercing them to accept that LGBT is wrong so why are they enforcing it upon me to accept that it's right?
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2021
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  17. Surati

    Surati Well-Known Member

    Thought about homeschooling at some point. I’m sure it bring a lot of benefits.

    Just not sure if the boundaries of parent/teacher would be blurred and how to preserve the parent relationship when you are also the teacher. Other factors to consider would be the dedication and getting into a strict routine.

    Anyone tried it here?
  18. Shadman

    Shadman Active Member

    I think putting them into a Catholic school would be a better option. Deobandi/Wahabi poison is just as bad. It's easier to identify and rectify Christian theology.
  19. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    You can tell him to tell the teacher, "It's a free country. Just as those fairies (he can use another 'respectful' word) are free to believe in and do what they wish, I too am free to believe in and do as I wish. In my religion homosexuality is forbidden and I detest such acts."

    If the teacher tries to teach him Islam and says that there are Muslim imams and preachers who believe otherwise, tell the child to tell him/her directly, "Don't tell me what my religion says. You don't know it. I do. As for those "Muslims" (do the quotation mark thing with the hands) who believe it to be permissible, that's their prerogative and their religion that they wish to call Islam. It has no bearing on my religion."

    No need to be respectful or kowtow to their agendas.

    Here's my genuine question to you and other members:

    If you can't homeschool or can't fight the tide of fawahish in such schools, is it a better option to put them in a wahabi or deobandi oriented Islamic school? I'd assume england would have a few. I'm not too sure if we Sunnis (desi or otherwise) have Islamic schools in the west, other than the Turks.

    Note that our times and circumstances are different than the ones faced by our parents. Not only is there no harm, but rather it's a necessity for parents to have sex talk (including what homosexuality is) with their kids and tell them what Islam does and doesn't condone. If you don't have this talk, the school teachers will, just as you highlighted.

    You need to curb this evil pre-emptively. If the school board teaches kids gender theory and sex ed in year 5, you better make sure he or she knows whatever those things are and the Islamic position on all that, in year 4.

    Generally, mothers would teach girls Surah Yusuf or Surah Noor when they came of age, the boys learning lowering of gaze and so on from their Quran teachers and so on.

    Now all that needs to be done much before puberty. Plus you gotta teach about qawmu Lut and what homosexuality is and the ahadith prohibiting men behaving like women and so on - to kids upwards of 7 yrs of age.

    And promote early marriage in teen years, without the cultural baggage of exorbitant mahrs, and dowries and unnecessary rituals, and just following of Sunnah.
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2021
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  20. Surati

    Surati Well-Known Member

    My kid tells me that his class teacher happily promotes LGBTQ+. Once, he was even openly challenged by said teacher for saying something about it.

    How does one tackle this rampant in-your-face issue when it comes to adhering to one's beliefs and values especially in relation to kids? LGBTQ+ are free to do what they want, but how does one respectfully disagree without sounding like it's "discrimination" or "not being tolerant and inclusive"?

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