Discussion in 'General Topics' started by abu Hasan, Feb 23, 2023.

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  1. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    the problem is also about tackling 'burning questions' from an islamic viewpoint, rather than a defensive or conciliatory approach.

    alahazrat's small risalah - tadbir e falah o najat o islah - translated as 'prospects for recovery' sets the framework for coming back on the road to recovery.

    the accompanying essay (as an appendix tries to answer a few questions) -

    Ali_Bash likes this.
  2. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    Parents have to learn about liberalism and have answers ready. They need to constantly rebut when they're with the kids.
    Aurangzeb likes this.
  3. Khanah

    Khanah Veteran

    The biggest reason, based on interactions I've had with people in Muslim countries, that this fitnah (and liberalism in general) is becoming more widespread in Muslim countries is the easy access to the Internet and general media like TV. TV is essentially a trojan horse and an easy way to colonise the minds rather than colonise bodies.

    Usually those who speak good English are the ones most likely to fall prey to western mindsets because it this exact reason although the fact dubbing/subtitles exist means that no one is safe.

    For those considering home schooling as a way to escape this fitnah, I back you 100%. For those who want to make hijrah due to this fitnah, I also back you. But remember, as long as your kids have easy access to TV or Internet, they ain't safe. But definitely safer.
    Aqdas likes this.
  4. Aurangzeb

    Aurangzeb New Member

    Lest you think these problems only affect Muslims in the west, you are mistaken and Islamic schools in the west tread a perilous path from the outset. From Indonesia to Morocco, powerful narratives are woven against Islam globally without an outright attack. An outright attack would probably cause a flight or fight response, but a slow release of poison gently numbs the body until it is but a corpse on which nature feeds. Recognise the narratives and provide robust counter narratives OR take the approach of an organisation like Hizmet and the plan of building the 'Golden Generation' - its debatable how well such a method would work outside of majority muslim nations.

    Don't be disheartened brothers, we remember the promise of Allah. We muslims are on a war footing but an ideological one. The most powerful weapon one has is one's thought and expression. Why can't one or many amongst us produce from our loins those who will call to Islam from cradle to grave? Are we not the people who have been given supreme guidance and the best way of life? I gather many an unbeliever would flock to our way if they saw the absence of the ills which plague theirs, yet representatives of the best way of life are in short supply, and yet they do exist and can have profound impact.

    As for the kuffar, many are receptive to Islam especially when it is seen in holistic practice and not simply a set of robotic rituals. What we often offer them is a watered down ribena instead of karak chai full of intensity and complexity.
  5. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    i got this on whatsapp. have no idea about the accuracy of the numbers or the methods used to guage who left Islam and how, but i can surely vouch for the fact that we live in times when people become murtads without even realizing it, and kids become murtads without their parents even understanding

  6. sherkhan

    sherkhan Veteran

    Abdul Hakim Murad on wokeism and state indoctrination

  7. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    A page from the book (one of the books?) which was/is supposed to be included in the public school curriculum in Michigan and caused Muslims to protest against teaching LGBT porn in schools.

  8. Hanafi Sunni

    Hanafi Sunni Veteran

  9. Hanafi Sunni

    Hanafi Sunni Veteran

    It's getting worse. We need ulama and awaam (parents) to interact on how to tackle this. If "imams" like these come out full force on youtube then the the youth will be done for in the near future.

    "His been to Mecca 5 times for hajj in order to get close to Allah and his family have grown to accept him"

    Allah protect us from this fitna.
  10. Surati

    Surati Well-Known Member

    Been reading about the backlash JK Rowling has been getting because of speaking out against transgenders and it’s frankly concerning.

    Today is Detransawareness day and a lot of people are sharing their testimonials online and most seem to have made that choice when they were in their teens (someone was even 14) and someone mentioned how her school encouraged it. Some clinics are even doing irreversible surgeries at 12 years old.

    I have kids in that age bracket and concerned that they are being fed this rhetoric at school. Really hope that our Ulama start speaking about these topics or madrasahs start to tackle this issue. As a parent, there is only so much I can do.
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2022
    Abdullah Ahmed and Aqdas like this.
  11. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    second, third, fourth generations? how many is 'many' as in percentage? i'm just curious.
  12. Juwayni

    Juwayni Veteran

    Don't have the book, don't know the details of what's in it. Yes Habib Umar contributed to it.

    How difficult would it be for our grads and scholars to write such a book when you have Malays for whom English isn't their mother tongue do these kinds of relevant works?

    Attached Files:

  13. Shu’ayb Idrees

    Shu’ayb Idrees New Member

    We should also consider Da’wah in our own mirpuri/potwari language, or even teaching fard uloom in these languages, all our youngsters may not get around Urdu but many are well aware of there own aapni lingo.
  14. Taftazani

    Taftazani New Member

    100% Agree. Very well said.
  15. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    Their internal disputes notwithstanding, do you guys have a lot of young english speaking shuyukh like Shahid Ali or Asrar Rashid? As an outsider, before their dispute, I only knew of Asrar Rashid, and after it, Shahid Ali too.

    I'm sure you'll also have a ton of young huffaz (not full on scholars) who speak english and also know proper tajweed and know enough to guide kids at basic levels.

    They can also be given opportunities (alongside training from seniors) to guide kids. I dunno if we Sunnis have our own version of a boy scouts.

    In my experience though, I'll tell you this much from what I've seen some other places in the west. The 'true blue', so to say, Urdu/Punjabi speaking ulama see english speaking shuyukh as a major threat to their statuses, and also as second class desis (probably justified) and second class Sunnis (not justified).

    Therefore, they promote and portray them as sidekicks with themselves being godfathers. They will not express it in words, but in action they will propagate - this young english speaking mawlana is my assistant, for any issue, religious, or relating to mosque committee or funds, or any xyz matter, my word is final.

    If at all any such people have studied with Arab shyukh and are proficient in Arabic and well read and well connected with Arabs or Turks, immediately the inferiority complex of the desi seniors gets triggered when they see they cannot even read the Fatiha as nicely as this young speaker.

    They get annoyed or feel intensely threatened, when this young english speaking mawlana holds knowledge-centered study circles and cites anything outside of the standard masala mix of naatkhwani, fazail, karaamaat, and wahabi/devbandi bashing. Allah forbid should he cite Sarkhasi or broaden the students' horizons by Imam Ghazali's opinion on a matter from the Shafi3i pov, or even give an opinion from Abu Yusuf even within Hanafis. This poor whitewashed half firangi doesn't even know Ajalla Al-I3lam; how utterly disssgusting!

    It won't be long before they will either try to recruit him as their sidekick or token english speaker, or try to sabotage him as a sulah kulli.

    For these kind of oldies, LGBTQ is haram because 'Quran and Sunnah say so'. While that is indeed the case, they're incapable of discussion on the gay movement and its evil strategies and tactics, gender theory, gender dysphoria, legal and political issues surrounding the LGBTQ movement, etc. all such discourse surrounding this evil.

    One could argue we don't need to dive into all that filth and a one liner 'Quran and Sunnah command us with such and such' would suffice.

    Yes, it would, to someone living in 1920.

    To such people, i would like to ask them why hold Khatme Nubuwwat courses, conferences, seminars and so on? Isn't a one liner 'Quran says so' sufficient there too?

    In short, we need to come to grips with the times we're living in.

    What I've seen as the difference between senior wahabis and us is that they see their young scholars/speakers (english speaking, uni grads, professionals in careers, abcd's etc) as assets to their movement, and play on the strengths of those young scholars.

    Our seniors see our young scholars/speakers as competition within our movement, and try to pull them down on their real or perceived weaknesses, lest they promote their peer-shop!

    Allah knows best.
    Ghulam Ali, Bazdawi, Shadman and 3 others like this.
  16. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    Until our kids stop attending state schools, these things will keep getting worse. The real answer is Islamic schools.

    But until Sunnis can do that,

    1. The 5-7pm madrasah system needs to be strong.
    2. Parents need to know the answers to all these problems.
    3. Home environment must be Islamic.

    Evening madrasahs must have qualified teachers who teach in English. Native speakers who understand the culture in the UK.

    This way, kids won't see the masjid as inferior to school. They'll soon realise that, 'hey, hold on, my masjid teacher is actually smarter than my school teacher.'

    Sunni tabligh needs to be in English by young speakers who've gone through the same system as these kids and know the challenges.
    Ali_Bash and Unbeknown like this.
  17. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    what I personally miss in most of our discussions and discourses and complaints and celebrations is the big picture perspective.

    there's the majority who just don't care and there is the minority who's supposed to make them care.

    But most "re-orientationists" seem to be preoccupied with tiny bits of the jig-saw - not the whole puzzle.

    What I would love to see - and perhaps what would draw in the disinterested - is a big picture view, progressively narrowed down to the topic at hand - each and every time.

    Why should I come to your talk? Why should I follow you on social media? What value do you add to my life, my world?

    These are important questions that everyone of the educators must try to address, every time they get a chance.

    And for that they need to be in touch with the times - it's shallow pretences as well as its deep sicknesses.

    Perhaps we need Ihya-al-Uloom 2.0...
  18. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    I saw a post about ulama discussing why our propagation isn't effective.

    Firstly, you speak in Urdu.

    Wake up.
  19. Surati

    Surati Well-Known Member

    I’m frankly worried for kids nowadays and the generations to come; kuffar kids have no morals or values.

    They are pro everything haram (drugs, alcohol, pornography, dating, clubbing, ‘sleepovers’). They have no haya: in the UK unisex changing rooms are now becoming a thing. They also don't think they need to care and look after their parents when they become old. Disrespect to parents and elders is common.

    Teenage girls (Muslim) fight and use foul language in school, will never even consider living with in-laws, don’t want to have kids and are pro abortion.
  20. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    1468310798523064320 is not a valid tweet id

    this is the direct result of following "shuyukh" like ali jifry, mark hanson, bin bayyah, tahirul, faraz rabbani, nuh keller, faisal kutty, tim winters et al

    teaching little children riddah

    ps. it seems thats a devbandi criticizing other devbandis.
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2021

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