love of the pope

Discussion in 'Multimedia' started by AbdalMujtaba, Dec 1, 2013.

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  1. Wadood

    Wadood Veteran

    Brother AbdalQadir, you may not know this but sunnimuslim is our senior dear brother. Please dont call him as such, as he did not call abuse you as such.

    you are a homosapien too :)

    we all are.
     
  2. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    Typical of his idiot admirers. Islam is based on the shari3ah. Shari3ah defines who is right and wrong. Some idiot like this old fool do not define what the shari3ah is.

    Islam defines people. People do not define what is right or wrong.

    So unless you can bring me proof from the shari3ah that such mockery of Islam and such kissing up to kafirs, the vile pope much less who has even spoken against the Prophet 3alaihis salam, is permitted in Islam, learn to keep your face shut!

    No. But what is kufr and what is not and what is an insult to Islam is (or should be) known by every Muslim, mufti or not.

    So do I. He is a mere homosapien and that's all he is!
     
  3. sunnimuslim

    sunnimuslim Active Member

    stop the propaganda against Sheik Nazim

    Stop this propaganda against Sheik Nazim. Who are you to judge who is right and wrong?? are you a mufti??? It is discusting. Everybody know who Sheik Nazim is.
     
  4. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    where? media or this forum?
     
  5. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    in fat'H al-qadir,
    one should not deal with disbelievers like they would treat Muslims, with respect or veneration - it is not permissible to do so.

     
  6. Wadood

    Wadood Veteran

  7. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    'shaykh' nazim's actions are being mentioned again and anybody criticizing his deplorable action of humiliating himself in front of an enemy of islam, is being ridiculed.

    ----
    in hidayah, about the dhimmis:
    it is necessary that there be a distinct marking on their quarters so that if a Muslim beggar goes to these houses, he may not pray for their forgiveness..
    imam ayni writes:
    because it is humiliating for a Muslim in the very act of seeking alms at the door of a disbeliever; and then praying for the forgiveness of an enemy of Allah ta'ala and standing at the door of disbelievers is disgraceful. this is humiliation of a Muslim, let alone pray for the disbeliever.
    sub'HanAllah! if there was any reservation i had for this nazim mazkur (for his age at least) i lost it after i saw that video. this vile man they call the pope, insulted islam and RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam. no muslim with ghayrah should even mention this man with respect.

    even disbelievers are willing to stand up for their beliefs and have the courage to protest. see here.

    it is strange why shaykh gibril cannot distance himself from this act. i used to respect him, but he fell considerably in my estimation. it is, as if he too is afflicted by the devbandi virus: wrong or right, my shaykh is right.
     
  8. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    where did i say everyone, or anyone at all, should sign in to my comments akhi? i am just another internet nobody, not a qadhi/mufti. i have only given my personal sentiments and not given any fiqhi rulings.

    i thought i said we are not the takfiri demons we are made out to be. all i have said is that these things need to be looked at strictly without any concern for upsetting any egos or default assumptions of grandeur in the face of the obvious. ala hazrat did shred his rubbish statements to smithereens.

    anyways, my thoughts on this thread are clear and no point for me to "discuss" just for the sake of discussing.
     
  9. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    i think you are getting all worked up for nothing. having a good opinion is not a crime, until evidence refutes each of these beyond doubt. in my mind's eye, i can see that if you were in alahazrat's time, you would accuse him of being soft on ismayil dahlawi.

    ----
    what makes you think that everyone should just sign your comments without any hesitation or research?
     
  10. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    i can't.

    this homo-sapien's most recent activity has openly confirmed what some Muslims who have known him from before the days of his internet popularity, have been screaming since the earlier days of his popularity - that he works patently for the cause of the kuffaar and not Islam or Muslims - and they were ostracized and rebuked on internet fan clubs by accusations of being anything from wahabi to habashi to murabitun (all of whom are lighter mubtadiy's than this dangerous person and his cabal whose only mission is to equate islam and kufr) - and elaborate justifications have been given for the rubbish spewed in his pamphlets (some of them out of print now), lectures, and the rubbish actions of his cohorts, hisham kabbani being his right hand in crime

    he traveled from the Turkish part of Cyprus to the UN controlled buffer zone between the Turkish and Greek parts. you don't just step into the buffer zone just like that. you have to make arrangements, arrange permissions with the UN office, set times and so forth.

    gone are the days when people used to travel to meet sahaba and tabi'een and scholars.

    plus

    his followers are flaunting it on their official website:

    http://www.naqshbandi.org/events/2010/Pope_Meets_Shaykh_Nazim.htm/pope_meeting_MSN.htm

    hisham kabbani's official site of the "islamic" supreme council of north america spews this official statement:

    http://www.islamicsupremecouncil.or...9-shaykh-nazim-adil-meets-pope-in-cyprus.html
    i don't need to show any half-intelligent Muslim the utter filth it is loaded with and the utter khiyanah this person has perpetrated against the words of the Beloved.

    in addition to that, if the media's word is to be taken, here is what nazim has said to popey boy:
    http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=212364
    http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1002354.htm
    ------

    jazak Allah khayr for the reminder and raising my guards akhi. i have just about had it with over-the-top softness to enemies of deen and bogus excuse-making and giving rubbish justifications for oneself/one's fan club, so i won't act like a hypocrite and give any excuses, explanations or justifications for what i said and will only say jazak Allah khayr.

    on the topic of "haram" and Mawlana Amjad Ali's fatwa that you quoted, i must say subhan Allah - and yet we are accused of being takfiri demons. plenty of Arab 'ulema, as far as i know, have passed a ruling of kufr and not the softer and scrupulous ruling of haram on respect to kafirs.

    it is about time Sunnis got ruthless to the people who make a mockery of the deen in the name of ihsan and tasawwuf and all those who support them. softness works with genuine people, not actors. hence, the jazak Allah khayr for your directness. may Allah grant Sunnis the capabilities to be harsher and sterner with the ahlul bid'ah and ahlul kufr. aameen bijaahi Nabiyyil Kareem.
     
  11. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    i can think of a few excuses and senility is one.

    ----
    regardless, if true,* this whole episode was a humiliation of muslims. in a fatwa mawlana amjad ali was asked whether the nikah conducted by a heretic (anti-madh'habite, ghayr muqallid) was valid. he replied that, if 'ijab-qabul' is conducted by even a kafir, the nikah would remain valid. and adds: 'however, one should not ask kafirs to do this because, this act indicates showing respect to kafirs and giving respect to kafirs is haram'.

    ----
    why should an elderly muslim, touted as a 'king' degrade himself in front of a pope? he should have told the pope : 'don't say three. there is only One.'

    tawadu'u is in front of muslims, not in front of kafirs. one should be proud and wear their pride on their sleeve - this pride is not for one's own self. this is pride of islam.

    ruHama'u baynahum - merciful to muslims; but ashidda'u `ala'l kuffar: harsh with kafirs. courtesy is something else. even if he met the pope, he could have just met him as it is not wrong to meet leaders of other religions. many ulama in the past have met with leaders of other religions - BUT without humiliating themselves and islam by extension.

    this is why, the scrupulous amongst our ulama shunned company or visitation of kings and rulers.

    ----
    sayyiduna ghawth al-a'azam raDiyallahu 'anhu, had a way of meeting rulers. the visitor would arrive in the sitting room and when they were seated, sayyiduna ghaws e a'azam would enter the room obviating the need to stand up (which would be courtesy, but standing up is also a mark of respect) for rulers and kings.

    -----
    the kafir's prayer is nothing, but astray.

    ulama warn against praying for kafirs - except the prayer of guidance. asking them to pray for us (particularly a religious head) is as if respecting their religion and borders on the kufr. (though we cannot claim this unless the man himself says whether his request was spontaneously due to habit; or whether he indeed thought that his prayer would benefit him)

    -----
    of the mountains:**
    yusuf ibn asbaT says that he hear sufyan al-thawri say: 'by Allah! i swear by Him, and there is no god except Him: it has become permissible in our times to withdraw into seclusion (uzlah). [al-ghazali adds]: if it was permissible in those times, it has become mandatory in our times.

    also attributed to sufyan is that he wrote to al-khawwaS [raHimahuma Allah]: verily, you are in those times, from which the companions of sayyiduna Muhammad sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam sought refuge of Allah and that they don't see such times [as we live in]. and they had knowledge that we don't; then how about us, who are lesser than them in knowledge, lesser in patience, wanting in aid [in religion], and [faced with the increase in] the murkiness of the dunya and the corruption of people living in it?

    because sayyiduna umar ibn al-khattab radiyallahu anhu said: 'there is comfort and relief in seclusion, than in evil company'. and it is in this regard, the following lines have been said:
    hādha’z zamānu’l ladhī kunnā nuĥādhiruhu
    fī qawli kaábin wa fī qawli’bni masúūdī

    dahrun bihi’l ĥaqqu mardūdun bi ajmaýihī
    wa’ž žulmu wa’l baghyu fīhi ghayru mardūdi

    in dāma hādha wa lam yaĥduth lahu ĥadathun
    lam yubka maytun wa lam yufraĥ bi mawlūdi

    this is an age, about which, we were warned against
    in the sayings of kaab and ibn mas'ud

    an age in which truth is totally rejected

    and oppression, rebellion is not rejected

    if this continues, and nothing happens to change the situation

    there won't be sorrow for the departing dead; nor celebration for the newborn

    laa Hawla wa laa quwwata illah billah. for abdu'l qadir: there is a difference between insulting RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam and committing harams. don't mix up the two.




    *there seems little evidence to the contrary, but still strange things happen and one ought to be cautious. wa billahi't tawfiq.

    ** from minhaj al-abidin attributed to imam ghazali.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2013
    Ghulam Ali likes this.
  12. abu nibras

    abu nibras Staff Member

    very sad indeed. can't say much, must run to the mountains.
     
  13. ottomanhanafi

    ottomanhanafi Active Member

    the wahabiya will have a field day with this. Really is quite sickening this soft sufi image that the west are pushing. I see a lot of double standards and as harsh as the points abdul qadir made i wholeheartedely agree with him.this is literally killing us as the youth see this and are totally bemused allowing the deviants to pounce on them.
     
  14. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    why don't you please make your beliefs regarding the issue known instead of speaking in cryptic clues.

    if 'discussion' is a euphemism for slowly stirring the pot and then quietly sneaking in a philosophical justification for such dirty hippy culture in the name of Sufism, then please bring forth evidence from the Quran, Sunnah, and sayings of the imams of the madhabs in regards to justifying kissing a kafir priest so honorably, kissing his hands, and honoring him and his disgraced kufr by asking him to pray for oneself.

    unless you are a 7 year old yourself or think that you are posting for kids who can't see the tone in it, to an adult your post looks like it is riddled with sarcasm and agitation at opposing this dirty hippy culture and trying to justify the actions of this so called "sultan al-awliyaa" - and this post looks like you're playing victim now and displaying moral pompousness because you have nothing to "discuss".

    if it wasn't your intention and if you too believe this person's actions are patently wrong (to say the very very very least) in the light of the Shari'ah (which is what i stated, and gave Shaykh Ahmad Sirhindi's letter supporting what I said), please change your writing style and state it clearly and i shall apologize to you just as sincerely and publicly as i lashed out at you.

    it is not personal.
     
  15. kattarsunni

    kattarsunni Veteran

    AbdalQadir: I find it hard to disagree with your reasoning because it is right.

    I don't know what to say.
     
  16. Ibn Ajibah

    Ibn Ajibah New Member

    How mighty presumptuous of you to assume what I believe regarding this issue. I apologize for mistakenly assuming that you actually have the ability to discuss things.


    . . .moving along. . .<o></o>
     
  17. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    ibn ajibah i don't have the inclination to respond to the sarcasm of fools like you who will find any excuse to trample the deen and honor the kuffaar. it is after all, expected of the pretentious members of internet celebrity fan clubs.

    did you even read the whole letter and see what the imam has said?

    why don't you bring evidence from the shari'ah which justifies the actions of this person? any quotes from any mujtahids or imams of the classical era that justify kissing the hands of kafir priests and asking a kafir to pray for oneself?

    i have no reservations in insulting clowns like you who seek to destroy islam from within only to keep pretentious groupie fan clubs running.

    if you would have read the whole letter and if you know what the scholars of the Ahlus Sunnah have said in regards to such behaviour, you would know you are scraping the barrel and know bloody well you cannot justify this misguidance.

    as for what you are talking about, it refers to mingling with them and rubbing shoulders with them, like how your "sultan al awliyaa" is doing with the pope and nothing to do with the physical language itself. there isn't a race on earth that doesn't contain Muslims, born or reverted, so it is stupid (and expected) of people like you to bring in that point.

    say the same for abdul raheem green and bilal phillips and all the wahabi dai'is too!

    people of bid'ah are people of bid'ah and no amount of elaborate justifications will change that. period.
     
    Ghulam Ali likes this.
  18. Ibn Ajibah

    Ibn Ajibah New Member

    Imam al-Sirhindi states that speaking the language of the disbelievers in included in what constitutes 'i'zaz (honoring) of them.

    So are those who speak "their languages" also included in your denunciation?
     
  19. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    kattarsunni, i don't know about the fatwa or the incident of shaykh badr (or who he is (as far as i know, just entering the church in and of itself is not kufr, and the ruling of kufr warrants some conditions in regards to the intentions and what was done in there)) but your defensive philosophy is the way of the batinis, where the shari'ah is subordinate to celebrity personalities and elaborate explanations are given to justify violations of the shari'ah. by this disgusting methodology, any wrong can be made to look right and people are praised to the extent of flawlessness. this is the way of the alevis and the agha khanis.

    you can continue to live in fairy floss land but the Beloved Prophet of Allah, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, has commanded us to act on the apparent, and unless the video is doctored, what is apparent is very clear therein.

    if you apply this same approach, you should also accept all the elaborate excuses and accept the deobandi "akabir" as your akabir.

    here is the link to what Mujaddid Alf Thaani says PRECISELY on this very point. The letter in Persian as written by the great imam:

    http://www.hakikatkitabevi.com/display.asp?DID=2&KID=31&SID=271

    The Arabic translation of the letter is snipped from the Hakikat Kitabevi pdf files and attached for your perusal. (Letter 163, Volume 1, Book 3)

    this man deserves nothing but the scorn of the Ahlus Sunnah.

    I'd like to see what elaborate explanations internet celebrities who support this person give in regards to a Muslim kissing a kafir priest's hands and a "scholar" who claims to be "sultan al-awliyaa" asking a kafir to "pray" for him! laa hawla walaa quwwata illaa billaah

    it's no surprise that tahirul padri is an associate of this other padri.

    Shari'ah is above people. People are not above it.

    Shari'ah defines people. People don't define it.
     

    Attached Files:

  20. kattarsunni

    kattarsunni Veteran

    Shaykh Badr alDin gave the fatwa that entering a chuch is kufr. One day his student, Shaykh Salim Hammami followed him. Shaykh Badr went inside a church. He stayed in there for a few hours. The student waited outside. When the Shaykh came outside the student continued following him. Then Shaykh Badr trned around and called Shaykh Salim. He asked him why he was following him? Shaykh Salim said he was confused because he had saw Shaykh Badr enter a church and he had given the fatwa that it is kufr. Shaykh Badr replied that the priest had become a Muslim, but was hiding his Islam because the Christians may kill him. Shaykh Badr said he went to see him to keep him firm on staying Muslim and to pray for him....

    Shaykh Nazim is a da'i. Only Allah knows how many people he has made Muslim and some who hide their faith because they maybe killed?
     

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