Masjids in Covid

Discussion in 'Tasawwuf / Adab / Akhlaq' started by Aqdas, Sep 7, 2020.

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  1. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    no qatiy proof for what - religious proof for the hukm or medical proof for the vaccine's efficacy?

    as far as the medical "qatiy" proof is concerned, we know for a fact that medicine isn't 100% definitive like maths. medicine in and of itself is eventually zanni knowledge.

    i personally know people who are allergic to amoxicillin and can't take it, i know people who have reactions to some standard painkillers, people who will have adverse reactions to having peanuts. pre-pandemic i knew of at least two 20 something's who died of heart attack

    there may well be and probably are people who have had heart attacks or paralysis or something from this vaccine. but medical "facts" are based on the logic if something is "by and large" ok, it will be promoted.

    if covid is a conspiracy, it would have to be the greatest unified effort by all the governments of the world, as the seriousness of the pandemic is the fact even enemy states are agreeing on
     
    Chishti Nizami likes this.
  2. Surati

    Surati Active Member

    This is a very immature answer and it looks like it is coming from someone who is not very well versed in the medical field nor has had to work with Covid patients or in a setting where he would be at risk of catching Covid.

    He started by answering a question about vaccines and quickly deviated into talking about how lockdown restrictions were bad. It served the purpose to hide the fact that he didn’t give any rationale for why he remains “totally” skeptical about the vaccine.

    I personally know people who have participated in Public Health England’s SIREN study looking at re-infection post Covid and they have actually developed antibodies against Covid-19, showing that the vaccine has stimulated the immune system properly.

    Shaykh Asrar is a public figure and has a lot of people who follow him and who value his opinion. The moment he voices a “personal position” out loud it becomes a position which the public knows about and are likely to be influenced by and subsequently follow! It suffices to check out the comments on this post of his on Facebook where people are saying “don’t take the vaccine”.

    As a public figure, if he wanted his position to remain “personal” then he should have kept quiet and not put it out to the public. This is akin to me saying “I’m not racist but you are a insert-racist-word”. It is almost as if he added “personal” as a get out clause so that he doesn’t have to take responsibility for what he said in case someone follows it and something bad happens. If he is that confident about the inefficacy of vaccines when it comes to protecting people from covid-19 then he should advise people clearly instead of hiding behind words and going on a tangent.

    also not sure why he is comparing Covid-19 to plagues and previous pandemics. Covid-19 patients are at times asymptomatic, unlike people who are affected by the plague. A healthy looking young man standing next to a 70 year old uncle shoulder to shoulder could potentially kill that uncle whilst he is only suffering with a small sniffle.

    As Muslims we have to follow the majority opinion and in this case most scholars and medical experts have said that you need to take the vaccine so Shaykh Asrar’s opinion is shaadh (an outlier) which we should not be giving too much credence to.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2021
  3. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    I don't think he's saying that. It looks like it's his personal stance that he is sceptical but hasn't said others shouldn't take it.
     
  4. Surati

    Surati Active Member

    so is he saying people should not take the vaccine?
     
  5. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    Shaykh Asrar has a different view:

    'Some ulama are saying that taking the Covid-19 vaccine is fard (obligation) and some are saying it is sadaqah (charitable act). What is your view?

    Answer: It is neither of the aforementioned and there is no qati' (decisive) proof to substantiate that. In fact my personal position remains total scepticism regarding the Covid-19 vaccinations. Lockdown had adverse economic and social effects also, including physical and mental problems and curbing freedoms. Freedom to join shoulders in prayer and to pray without a face mask is a bidah (innovation), even though we are not sinful due to the imposition of these restrictions by governments who are responsible. Even though in 1400 years of our history, we have had plagues and pandemics, but never was a fatwa (verdict) issued to have gaps in the prayer rows or the ceasing of trade and commerce.'

    - end of quote.
     
  6. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    Government.
     
  7. sherkhan

    sherkhan Veteran

    by "they", you mean the government/authority or masjid committee?
     
  8. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    If we don't, they won't let us attend masjid at all.
     
  9. sherkhan

    sherkhan Veteran

    ... and who makes these rules? Are these divinely ordained rules?
     
  10. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    Rules are rules. Like them or not. Not everyone likes a 70mph speed limit on an empty motorway but it applies nonetheless.

    With Covid still alive and kicking, our masjids have had to introduce new measures and procedures. The masjid is a public place, not your personal domain, so you will have to adhere to the rules the management sets.

    You may not like wearing a mask at all times whilst indoors, but you have to.

    You may not enjoy leaving the masjid one row at a time, in an orderly manner, but you have to.

    You may not like not being able to offer your sunnah prayers at the masjid, but you can't.

    You may not like being told to stay in your place, but you have to.

    You may not like a one way system, but you must adhere.

    It is what it is. Do it.

    I'm not normally one to generalise or stereotype but mass disobedience of set rules does once again highlight perhaps an ingrained anarchy prevalent amongst us. It's as if we break rules to purposely annoy those in authority. We just don't like doing the right thing...
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2021
    uk7866 likes this.

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