Mufti Akmals request to Dawate Islami regarding Bahare Shariat

Discussion in 'General Topics' started by Hanafi Sunni, Apr 16, 2022.

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  1. Khanah

    Khanah Veteran

    I think it's not meant to be taken literally anyway. How can someone become an aalim without knowing Arabic or tajweed or usul Al fiqh etc. The tag line is probably just to show how important the book is.

    The part where he said that people may challenge ulema due to something they've read in bahar e sharia- isn't that a good thing? They're challenging you on the basis of reading something in a legitimate book, not based on the information they received from some random rickshaw driver. If the aalim can't stand up to scrutiny and questioning, maybe he can go and find out the answer and increase his own knowledge as a result.
    Mohammed Nawaz likes this.
  2. Hanafi Sunni

    Hanafi Sunni Well-Known Member

    Please could you answer this question yourself Mawlana abuHasan.

    My understanding, since i've been on SP, modern darsi nizami syllabus aint up to 'standard' & nor does it make one an aalim.

    Yet here
    You are saying 1 book can make one an aalim. It's contradictory in the sense that:
    Almost all darul ulooms teach bahare shariat in their first 2 years.
    And that very 'certificate' is critiqued such that it's said "a certifcate does not make one an aalim"

    So what exactly makes a person an aalim, or who is an aalim. What's the 'yardstick' to measure alimiyat?
    Mohammed Nawaz likes this.
  3. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    what exactly makes one an aalim? graduating from a madrasah and obtaining certificates?

    deja vu.
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  4. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    according to mufti akmal, a person reading bahar e shariat would not have come across these masa'il.

    bahar, v1p609.png

    bahar, v1p614.png

    another method to refute mufti akmal's belittling of bahar e shariat is to ask him to compile juzyiyyat not found in bahar e shariat. take this mas'alah of mufsidat - there are 89 points in this chapter. how many more can mufti akmal's graduates add? 10%, 100% more? let us see how many more they can add (that are not understood from bes. merely listing variant cases based on the same mas'alah won't count) so we are convinced about the argument.

    besides, his reasoning of 'definition of amal kathir in the past is different from our time' - so what exactly is the definition of amal kathir according to mufti akmal in our time? what is the basis of this dispensation? he says previous people had khushuu and not found in our time.

    if that is the basis, it opens a pandora's box: in fact, he should allow people to read from mus'haf (thus not annulling namaz)which at least has a precedent. after all, times have changed people do not have time to memorise the qur'an. besides, the illah of 'holding the mus'haf constitutes amal kathir' can be done away with. saudi imams do it with very little movement and put it in the pocket.

    off the top of my head, we can think of a dozen more 'dispensations' for the youth have no time for religion and demanding khushu for 5 minutes is too much for their delicate dispositions.

    is replying to whatsapp messages on a phone and liking facebook posts amal kathir or not? because in our time this is common - if you keep considering it mufsid, then so many youth will be hindered from their social media activities or spoil their namaz. let us allow them to like facebook pages at least...

    akabir not akabireen.
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2022
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  5. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    is mufti akmal saying that the mas'ala of amal e kathir is not found in BeS? or that the explanation of the mas'ala he expounds is missing in bahar e shariat - or a person reading bahar e shariat has no clue of this?

    one more funny thing he says: imam sahib scratched his itch and the second itch was 10 minutes later and the 3rd itch was 15 minutes later. perhaps he was talking about tarawih or qiyamu'l-layl. where you have 25minutes plus in ONE RUKN.
  6. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    mufti akmal's reasoning is unreasonable.

    bahar e shariat IS a book that can be called: 'aalim banane wali kitab'. and i will keep saying it.

    conversely, how many graduates from mufti akmal's madrasah will know mufta bih aqwal in bahar shariat? just as mufti akmal says - bring them in front of me and i will ask them questions related to not just mufta bih aqwal but also marjuh aqwal and since they are ostensibly aalims, they should be able to explain.

    plus fallacies abound in this 3 minute clip.

    if mufti akmal has an axe to grind with DWI or others, he shouldn't take it out on bahar e shariat and downplay its importance.
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 16, 2022
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  7. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    While we're on the topic of DI, i went to a Faizane Madinah somewhere in the west, and noticed -

    1. Before iftar, there was naatkhwani, zikr, and dua. During starting dua, the muballigh says the adab of dua and says while dua eyes must be lowered as per adab, looking here and there can lead to weak eyesight.

    I get the adab part to lower the eyes, but what's the daleel for getting weak eyesight if one's eyes are looking around in the mosque during dua?

    2. I don't know if this was a one off, but all pre-iftar zikr etc. was on microphone, but come iftar time, everyone heads to the area food was served (outside the mosque, in the lawn area) and waiting to break the fast. One responsible brother says 'time ho gaya hai roza khol lein' and everyone has iftar. After everyone finishes iftar and goes back to the mosque, the muazzin says the azan and iqamat for Maghrib on the mic.

    If it's a one off, perhaps it was just some administrative mishap for the day. But if they made a routine out of it, regardless of fiqhi validity, it's inviting others to talk about ourselves. The tradition is we hear the azan of Maghrib and break the fast.

    Masha Allah they've done excellent and commendable work, so I'm not being pedantic just for the sake of it.

    I will seek clarification for it next time I'm in that area, but if someone knows anything like this abt DI, please do comment.
  8. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    The tagline used to be 'aalim ki maujudgi mein padhne se aalim banane wali kitab' or some variation thereof (late 80s early 90s, not DI publications), clearly mentioning you gotta read it under supervision of an aalim.
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2022
  9. Hanafi Sunni

    Hanafi Sunni Well-Known Member

    'Aalim banane wali kitab as Dawate Islami mentions it'

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