Quote from Imam Tirmidhi

Discussion in 'Aqidah/Kalam' started by abu Hasan, Jan 21, 2024.

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  1. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    it is easy to miss the point
    here the translation goes ahead and makes the explicit ta'wil of "hand" whereas in arabic is the word "yad" and it doesn't have to mean "hand".

    then what is "yad"?

    Allah knows what He has intended by using this word. therefore imam tirmidhi's saying: "yad" = quwwah/strength is ta'wil; because the jahmiyah deny that Allah has a yad and insist that it is strength.

    ahlus'sunnah say: we believe in yad just as was revealed and as intended in those verses/ahadith. we do not deny it. HOWEVER, we proffer a plausible explanation that does not contradict established aqidah and is compatible with language of the arabs (as in usage of native arabs).

    thus if we say: yad MAY be explained as power, it is not the same as the jahmis say.

    therefore noori has translated:

    Allah knows best.
    Umar99 likes this.
  2. Ibn Murtuz

    Ibn Murtuz New Member

    There is a difference of opinion among scholars about whether taweel about this is permitted or not. There is also a difference of opinion among scholars about whether 'yad' means power. Imam Tirmidhi did tafwidh.
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2024
  3. TruthWinner

    TruthWinner New Member

    what about the part that says imam tirmidhi said that the jahmiyya say yad means power? I thought this was a valid taweel.
  4. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    the last part clearly shows what imam tirmidhi rahimahullah meant;

    قَالَ أَبُو عِيسَى: هَذَا حَدِيثٌ حَسَنٌ صَحِيحٌ. وَقَدْ رُوِيَ عَنْ عَائِشَةَ عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ نَحْوُ هَذَا. وَقَدْ قَالَ غَيْرُ وَاحِدٍ مِنْ أَهْلِ الْعِلْمِ فِي هَذَا الْحَدِيثِ وَمَا يُشْبِهُ هَذَا مِنَ الرِّوَايَاتِ مِنَ الصِّفَاتِ وَنُزُولِ الرَّبِّ تَبَارَكَ وَتَعَالَى كُلَّ لَيْلَةٍ إِلَى السَّمَاءِ الدُّنْيَا قَالُوا قَدْ تَثْبُتُ الرِّوَايَاتُ فِي هَذَا وَيُؤْمَنُ بِهَا وَلاَ يُتَوَهَّمُ وَلاَ يُقَالُ كَيْفَ هَكَذَا رُوِيَ عَنْ مَالِكٍ وَسُفْيَانَ بْنِ عُيَيْنَةَ وَعَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ الْمُبَارَكِ أَنَّهُمْ قَالُوا فِي هَذِهِ الأَحَادِيثِ أَمِرُّوهَا بِلاَ كَيْفٍ. وَهَكَذَا قَوْلُ أَهْلِ الْعِلْمِ مِنْ أَهْلِ السُّنَّةِ وَالْجَمَاعَةِ. وَأَمَّا الْجَهْمِيَّةُ فَأَنْكَرَتْ هَذِهِ الرِّوَايَاتِ وَقَالُوا هَذَا تَشْبِيهٌ. وَقَدْ ذَكَرَ اللَّهُ عَزَّ وَجَلَّ فِي غَيْرِ مَوْضِعٍ مِنْ كِتَابِهِ الْيَدَ وَالسَّمْعَ وَالْبَصَرَ فَتَأَوَّلَتِ الْجَهْمِيَّةُ هَذِهِ الآيَاتِ فَفَسَّرُوهَا عَلَى غَيْرِ مَا فَسَّرَ أَهْلُ الْعِلْمِ وَقَالُوا إِنَّ اللَّهَ لَمْ يَخْلُقْ آدَمَ بِيَدِهِ. وَقَالُوا إِنَّ مَعْنَى الْيَدِ هَاهُنَا الْقُوَّةُ. وَقَالَ إِسْحَاقُ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ إِنَّمَا يَكُونُ التَّشْبِيهُ إِذَا قَالَ يَدٌ كَيَدٍ أَوْ مِثْلُ يَدٍ أَوْ سَمْعٌ كَسَمْعٍ أَوْ مِثْلُ سَمْعٍ. فَإِذَا قَالَ سَمْعٌ كَسَمْعٍ أَوْ مِثْلُ سَمْعٍ فَهَذَا التَّشْبِيهُ وَأَمَّا إِذَا قَالَ كَمَا قَالَ اللَّهُ تَعَالَى يَدٌ وَسَمْعٌ وَبَصَرٌ وَلاَ يَقُولُ كَيْفَ وَلاَ يَقُولُ مِثْلُ سَمْعٍ وَلاَ كَسَمْعٍ فَهَذَا لاَ يَكُونُ تَشْبِيهًا وَهُوَ كَمَا قَالَ اللَّهُ تَعَالَى فِي كِتَابِهِ: {لَيْسَ كَمِثْلِهِ شَيْءٌ وَهُوَ السَّمِيعُ الْبَصِيرُ}.

    ishaq bin ibrahim said the (accusation of) resemblance would only be correct if a person said (Allah has a) hand exactly like a hand (in the literal sense) or similar to a (physical) hand, or (His) hearing is exactly like a literal hearing or similar to (physical) hearing, so this is resemblance (to His creation), and if someone said like Allah Ta'ala has mentioned yad, and samy' and basar and he does not specify the modality and does not say Allah's hearing is similar to (the literal meaning of) hearing then this will not be a resemblance, and He (Subh'anu wa Ta'ala) is as He has said in His book - nothing is like Him; and He only is the All-Hearing, the All-Seeing.

    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 21, 2024
  5. TruthWinner

    TruthWinner New Member

    At-Tirmidhī stated, “…. the Jahmiyyah oppose these narrations and say, ‘This is resemblance (tashbeeh)!’ However, Allah the Most High, has mentioned in various places in His Book, His Attribute of Hand, Hearing, and Seeing but the Jahmiyyah make false interpretations of these verses, explaining them in a way other than how they are explained by the People of Knowledge. They say, ‘Allah did not create Adam with His own Hand.’ They say that Hand means power”. (See As-Sunan of At-Tirmidhī no. 662) https://sunnah.com/tirmidhi:662

    The so called salafis like to use this quote to refute ta'weel. Can anyone respond?

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