SacreKnowledge Playing Silly Games

Taajush Shari'ah, Mufti Akhtar Raza Khan Bareillwi [may Allah preserve him]
ref: http://www.taajushshariah.com/lifehistorycontents.html

 

What matters is that he is Sunni in Aqeeda. As for Husam ul Haramain then kattarsunni and others should get a statement from the sheikh which clealry states his position, that will be the end the of the argument.

I am not sure how likely it is with the sheikh having deobandis in his sanad.

When the sheikh visited Prof. Tahir ul Qadri in Pakistan, he went on to visit the major deobandi madrasa "Jamia Ashrafia Lahore"

see here: http://www.minhaj.org/english/tid/8...l-Yaqoubi-al-Hassani`s-visit-to-Pakistan.html

My point is that you cannot force him to be a barelwi.

I respect the Sheikh though as none of his speeches contain deobandi aqeeda, and of course he is a Syed.

 

I think this should serve as a lesson to the moderators. Longer you let such characters loiter on this forum, the longer you allow them to create nuisance and insult our elders.

It's one thing to be democratic and fair, another to be firm and decisive. You can only counsel or provide nasiha to someone genuinely ignorant or misinformed. I haven't come across a single stubborn person who has ever managed to get any guidance. I wasn't ridiculing him without reason.

FK's modus operandi was so clear and obvious from day one. Why he was given a long rope, boggles me. In my mind, there should be zero tolerance to people like FK. First a warning, then a ban.

 

1.It is imporant to know who are called barelwis.

For this , let us see quotes from scholars and historians.

The third group was that which stuck staunchly upon its old traditions and
continued to call itself the “Ahlu’s Sunnah”. The leaders of this group were mostly the Ulama of Bareilly and Badayun.

Hayat-e-Shibli, page 46. Darul Musannifeen, Azamgarh – Sulaiman Nadwi


The opinions of Muhammad Ja’far Thanesari and Mawlānā Thanaullah Amratsari are much closer to the truth and are helpful in arriving at correct conclusions

1) During my time in India (1280 AH, 1864 CE) I believe, there were not even ten individuals in the whole of Punjab that followed the Wahabi creed. And now (1302 AH, 1884 CE) I see that there is no town or city in which at least one in four people are Wahabi who follow the creed of Muhammad Isma’il.


Tawarikh-e-‘Ajeeba, page 81. Sang Mail Publications, Lahore – Muhammad Ja’far Thanesri

(2) In Amritsar, the Muslim and non-Muslim populations are equal. Eighty years ago, nearly all Muslims followed that creed which is today called “Hanafi Barelwi

Sham’a Tawhid, page 4. Maktaba Thana’ia, Sargodha, Punjab – Thanaullah Amratsari.

Please note: Both, Maulvi Thanaullah amritsari and historian Jafar Thansewari were staunch wahabis.


Mawlānā Thanaullah Amratsari, editor of the periodical said this in 1973.

According to him, 165 years ago, the Muslim population of Amritsar, Punjab,followed the same creed as those that are known today as “Hanafi Barelwi” and according to Muhammad Ja’far Thanesri, 200 years ago, there was no sign of any Wahabi or follower of Shah Isma’il Dihlawi in the whole of [undivided] Punjab.


Hence it is clear that the sunni population from subcontient is called Barelwi, which is nothing but the main stream ahlus sunnah wal jamah.



2. Those who can prove that the four elders of deoband did not commit kufr should come out with evidence to support this.


3. Those who say " I am neither a Barelwi nor a deobandi" should state their reuling upon those who show disrespect to prophet ( sal allahu alayhi wa sallam).


4. I also need ruling upon those deobandi scholars who made takfir upon each other. Example: Maulvi Darbhnagi on Maulvi Ashraf Ali Thanvi

5 Also ,please let me know what should be the case of Maulvi Khaleel Ambethvi who made self takfir.

Our love and loyalty to prophet should be more than our love for any one else.

If we truly love our prophet we will never love those who have shown disrespect to our prophet. We should not spoil our akirah( life after the day of judgement) for the sake of this small worldy life where we try to appease some people.

Will we love anyone who shows disrespect to our parents? Yes, you can, if you want!!

But you can not love any who shows disrespect to prophet because that is the ruling of shariah.

 

He's probably Abul Hussein on some of the other forums...

 

Abu Fadl, the point is simple. Yacoubi praising Alahazrat is no different than Sayyid Abdul Hayy Lacknawi or Nuh Keller praising him.

But the question is still remains and these people who are 'new kids on the block' get all excited just because one arab scholar -- who has far less murids than keller -- praised Alahazrat.

Does Yacoobi endorse the takfir by Alahazrat on Deobandis including Yacoobi's shaykh in isnad for hadith who is Khaleel Saharanpuri ? I don't need to post the answer here but I would like Abu Nibras or Abu Hasan to contact Yacoobi and ask him that.

Yeah, don't forget to ask him also if he agrees and endorses hussam al-haramain (takfir on 4 deobandis) and if he doesn't will the same be done like Keller ?

now the replies:

The same is said about you. You forgot those promises of refuting deobandis and now we are in 2010 ? oh yeah you got busy and all those lame excuses.

Have you read their replies on marifah forum. you got refuted many times. Hard to to admit.

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who made you people the spokesperson for ahl sunnah ? lol so funny. you people are exactly similar to wahhabis.

and let us not forget the inter barelwi split between various pirs.

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This is not true. I challenge you and your likes to show me or bring me the statement that Yacoobi endorses the hussam al-haramain and takfir of 4 deobandis including his shaykh in isnad, Khaleel Saharanpuri !!
Let us see who are the fitnah mongers.

But if you are talking about praising alahazrat then Father of Abul Hasan Nadwi also praised so did GF Haddad ( who failed to do the takfir of deobandis even after reading it ) or Shaykh Muhammad Alawi Maliki

so you are saying Alahazrat is infallible and cannot make any mistakes ?

funny how you people talk.

 

The point I think is that Sheikh Yaqoubi referred to Ashraf Ali Thanwi as Hakim ul Ummat.

Sacred knowledge is the official website of the Sheikh so how can anyone say they are being untruthful or not representing the Sheikh?

The best way to solve the matter is to ask Sheikh Yaqoubi to give a statement on whether he endorses the takfeer of Ala hazrat on those particular Deobandis, simple as that and once we hear it from the Sheikh, it does not matter what sacred knowledge or anyone else says.

Even Sheikh Dabbagh of TM has endorsed Hasam ul Haramain but strangely people are still not happy with him.

 

Can the brothers of sacredknowledge take down the imbecillic post on the Deobandi forums,may Allah reward you.

 

Ma sha Allah Tabaarak wa Ta'ala excellent reply, Subhaan Allah.

 

i did not want to reply, but given your history of shooting from behind and then run to hide when someone turns to face you, i think it is best to refute you where possible, hoping that there must be some shame left in you and it will cause you to fear Allah ta'ala.

nuh keller and his students were booted from "our camp" for a reason and this they brought upon themselves. the nuhusah of deobandi affiliation will manifest itself like it did to you.

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you did not realize it, but you have praised us in your comments.

- that we have good faith of people until they dissent from the aqidah of ahlu's sunnah wa'l jama'ah

- that we are not afraid to disown anybody if they dissent from the sunni aqidah.

- and that we won't try to find excuses for those who go out of the aqidah of ahlu's sunnah.
​

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the takbir is because, shaykh yaqubi says the same thing we have been saying and because the lame excuses deobandis (and fitna mongers like you) have been giving that none except us in the subcontinent consider alahazrat a mujaddid are given a resounding slap.

knowledge of hadith and other things requires one to read books. mere cut-n-paste is not enough. and many times you paste without bothering to read! you are incapable of even reading alahazrat's books and i dare you to disprove me by translating/analysing any of his books.

you are once again spitting at the sun.

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people with petty minds and those with ignorance vying with arrogance to outdo each other satisfy themselves with superficial talk. if you are serious, you know why we took exception to certain people; and it was not because of a personal grudge unlike some who change their ideology and even faith!

al-iyadhu billah.

 

What exactly are you trying to say, Kattar Sunni? Sacred Knowledge on SunniForum does not represent sacredknowledge.co.uk? If so, why are their posts the same as their posts on every other forum?

 

Someone has made a mistake on 'sunniforum' using the nick sacredknowlege. SK is a Sunni organistaion and not Deobandi. They are similar to Dawate Islami, in that they emphasise building on healthy work.

TO THE MODERATORS: PLEASE TAKE THIS THREAD DOWN.

 

KattarSunni, may be you should ask Yacoubi or his close associates about isnad going through Khaleel Saharanpuri , the author of Muhannad. Also, does the Yacoubi endorse fatwa like Hussam Haramain.

I don't know why all the excitement and takbir ! The same was done before for Nuh keller and then we know what happened to Nuh Keller and his students like Hamza and Faraz Rabbani. outcasted and booted out from "our camp."

History will repeat once again. wait and see.

 

There are former HamzaYusufites and Deobandis in the Shadhili Order. They are creating fitna. They mentioned that Shaykh Sahib quotes Deobandi Muhadithin in his isnads. I want to ask: name one chain. You will find that he does not have a chain with Nanotwi or Gangohi etc. That is a clear lie.

As for him mentioning Thanawi ONCE, it was done in a talk and he referenced a POINT from a book. So where is this so called respect for Deobandi Muhadithin the former Deobandi sulha kulli murids are trying to promote. These posts have not been placed by Birmingham murids. It has been done by some other deviants.

 

What is worth noting is not whether a particular Arab scholar praises one or the other. The point is his own beliefs in these contentious matters. No one who has listened to, read, or sat with the likes of Sh. Muhammad al-Yaqoubi or the Haba'ib can claim that they take the Deobandi position on these issues. Thus, if we look at it from this perspective, one in which the issues themselves are looked at, and not the conflicts, they fit squarely in the "Breilawi" camp.

 

If I may be so bold, the scholars in the non-desi world, in addition to not knowing Urdu, which is a given, possibly can't keep up with the 100+ yrs of history and documentation in regards to who said what and when and where and how - all based on translations and lobbying from either side - so it's understandable and perfectly in line with the Shari'ah for them to avoid the doubtful (which in this case will be rebuking either side for being nonSunnis) and have a "like, whatever" attitude to this issue, to put it in a manner of speaking.

Desis have a serious problem of seeing the world from the bizarre goggles of desiness and this issue is no different. Seriously, what on earth are you (generally speaking "you") trying to prove/achieve by labelling a poor Indonesian brother as barelvi-ised or deobandi-ised, when you can't even communicate with him properly, you don't know his language, he doesn't know yours and English is a foreign language to the both of you?!!! On the one hand we like to see the world thru the goggles of desiness and set up a jalebi and samosa shop where ever we go and on the other hand we are generally insecure as a people and need re-assurance on a lot of things from nondesis.

If a white convert sister accidentally dons a shalwar kameez, desi ladies are buzzing around her like flies and parading her as some sort of a trophy, doesn't matter if barelvi or deobandi. The same is the case with the ulema of the Arab world. Allah forbid one of them should say anything half way supportive about any aspect or book or lecture, etc. of any barelvi or deobandi mawlana and he needs to be paraded as a trophy and suddenly we think we have "signed him up" on our camp.

There is nothing wrong with strategic partnerships if employed with a straight face, with no "i need reassurances" inferiority complexes and at the same time no "we've signed you up" attitude either.

 

Exactly, you can't forcibly convert him into a Barelwi. From my experience of Arab Ulama they do praise Ala Hazrat and other Ulama of ours but that's not a guarantee to say that they will not praise Ulama of Deobandi.

Sheikh Yaqoubi has praised deobandi ulama in the past too so there is no point getting over excited about these things. This is why I did not start to jump around when I heard Sheikh Sahib said this about Ala Hazrat (plus it's not the first time he has praised Ala Hazrat).

If a Deobandi was interviewing him who is to say he would not praise Ulama of deoband?

I would say both barelwis and deobandis have got it wrong here in claiming that these scholars belong to their camp, this is why each side ends up getting disappointed when the sheikhs praise the other side, this after all that effort in lobbying these Ulama.

 

kattarsunni you cannot dictate what someone does, unless it is your own organization and the world doesn't revolve around the subcontinent or the barelvi-deobandi issues, that non-desis do not always have a clear picture of. if you have the truth on your side, you have nothing to fear. this attitude of ALL desis to try and "convert" any non-desi (Arab or Turk or Anglos or anyone) into a barelvi or a deobandi is really embarrassing and cheap, sorry to say.

the world is NOT desi. we (desis) just need to watch our own backyard and the others will do as they please. we can just make the truth known. the noble shaykh's statement is a classical example that in Islam, education works better than lobbying for groups! he read Ala Hazrat's book and gave a statement in his honor, and it was not the result of lobbying but rather simply the truth being manifest. EDUCATION IS KING!

speaking of "lobbying", the desi methods of "lobbying" are laughable (both barelvis and deobandis)

 

I don't think Shaykh Asrar and Yaseen respect the Deobandi Muhadithin. Talk to them two direct whoever you are. I don't think i'm posting anything wrong.