Sahri and Fajr time dialogue | Ummah Channel

Discussion in 'Events' started by Unbeknown, Jul 5, 2013.

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  1. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    the three types of twilight (Astronomical, Nautical and Civil) are defined w.r.t the sun's position in the sky, using one of these angular measurements: elevation, azimuth, depression, zenith.

    From what iv'e read, these make use of absolute reference points and disregard the observer's location. So their values do not change with the observer's position. So if abyad and ahmar are defined likewise then they cannot vary. But if they are defined w.r.t local observation then they may change. I am not sure which is it.


    Relevant points:

    Twilight is that period of dusk after sunset or dawn before sunrise during which the sky is partially lit by atmospheric scattering of sunlight. The duration of twilight after sunset or before sunrise depends on atmospheric conditions (clouds, dust, air pressure, temperature, humidity) and on the parallactic angle (the angle between the path of the setting or rising sun and the local horizon), both of which vary with the seasons (specifically the solar declination) and the terrestrial latitude.

    Astronomical sunrise is the moment when the upper limb of Sun first appears at the local easterly horizon. Astronomical sunset is the moment when the upper limb of Sun just disappears below the local westerly horizon.

    From sunrise to sunset a horizontally mounted sundial in an open area will display the local apparent time of day, if the sky is clear.

    Generally the brightness of the sky after sunset or before sunrise correlates with the degree of solar depression, that is the angle between the sea level horizon, the center of Earth, and the center of the solar disk (ignoring the elevation of the locale and the slightly raised apparent level of the local horizon caused by atmospheric refraction). Thus various stages of twilight are defined in terms of the solar depression angle, in degrees.

    Clouds can either shorten the duration of twilight or darken its stages, if the clouds are dense and darken the sky, especially if they obstruct sunlight, or they may prolong the duration or brighten its stages, if there is clear sky to the west below the horizon allowing sunlight to reflect from the clouds.

    (A planet or moon without an atmosphere has no twilight periods before sunrise or after sunset, and stars are visible at all times, even during the daytime.)

    Because our planet rotates, azimuth and elevation numbers for stars and planets are constantly changing with time and with the observer's location on earth.


    Sources: ESRL Global Monitoring Division.
  2. AashiqueeRasool

    AashiqueeRasool New Member

    Haji Liaqat Naushahi in his book on sehri sets his argument by 'wrongly accusing' Imam Ahmed Raza Khan radia ta'ala anhu of using incorrect latitude for Bolgar of 49 degrees, he supports this by quoting latitude of a Bolgar on 54 degrees. Al-Hamdu li-Allah, there is a Bolgar in Ukraine which is at 49 degrees which proves Haji Liaqats research is weak:

    Bolgar', Ukraine: Latitude: 49.883333 / Longitude: 35.683333

    The book is based on Haji Liaqat who is neither a scholar nor an astronomer trying to refute Imam Ahmed Raza Khan radia ta'ala anhu, Ma'azAllah.

    Mawlana Sabri and Mufti Jameel were defending this 'new' theory and concept which argues redness disappears at 8 degrees.

    A request if more learned brothers on this forum can explain Shafaqe Ahmer and Abyad and at what degrees it takes place, why and can it vary place to place, I.e. redness disappearing at 8 degrees in one place whilst 12 degrees in another place?

    JazakAllah khair
  3. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    what a shambles! why agree to a discussion and then back out at the last minute? totally unprofessional.
  4. Ahmad Yaar

    Ahmad Yaar Active Member

    The programme was delayed by 2.5 hours at which point they announced there would be a meeting in the next few days instead and the official Twitter account for Ummah tweeted as follows:



    Whoever is running the Twitter account has said Ummah Channel will be following 2:30am Sehri

  5. AashiqueeRasool

    AashiqueeRasool New Member

  6. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    there are 3 different camps being represented in this discussion:

    1. mufti shams and mawlana yunus misbahi - nisf ul layl [1am]
    2. mawlana zafar farashwi and sayyid munawwar - 2am
    3. mawlana khurshid and mufti jamil noshahi - 2:30pm

    8pm on 2nd july on sky 828

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