Sharing materiel from deviants and exposing Sunnis to heretical beliefs

Discussion in 'Aqidah/Kalam' started by Abdullah Ahmed, Nov 10, 2023.

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  1. Abdullah Ahmed

    Abdullah Ahmed Veteran

  2. Ghulam Ali

    Ghulam Ali Well-Known Member

  3. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    already answered.
  4. Ghulam Ali

    Ghulam Ali Well-Known Member

    can't we? After all it is fiqh not aqida. Not to deny AlaHazrat s mastery but if an alim used books of even more Senior Ulama then?
  5. Ghulam Ali

    Ghulam Ali Well-Known Member

    if the Pakistani Ulama didn't do this then, imagine where the qadiyanis would be today? Lqbt is being pushed on a massive scale targeting children as well as adults. Perhaps Ulama should form alliances in this regard? Provided our Ulama make their own position clear AND roundly refute the heresies of those they include. This does not have to be limited to sects but can extend to like minded orthodox Jewish and Christian people. They hate it just as much
  6. Ghulam Ali

    Ghulam Ali Well-Known Member

    and what if this was not a mistake and he didn't see anything wrong with this?
  7. Hanafi Sunni

    Hanafi Sunni Veteran


    But remember it was also us who raised our voices that for "common cause" of the Muslims we can associate with them such as lgbtq. We even presented evidences of barelwi Ulama associating with them for such matters, and totally disregarded their hatred of deviants. Hence, the reality is, it is us to blame for.

    The moment you allow one thing it becomes a scapegoat for many. Let us reap what we sowed once upon a time.

    And also, remember it was US who who raised our voices saying "we can differ from alahazrat on fiqh matters". So therefore if fatawa ridawiyyah is a fiqh book, then therefore many Mujahideen Ulama of this Era can differ from alahazrat.

    We have created so many "ifs and buts" to the teachings of sunniyat that we becoming entangled within them.

    I mean just look at sunnis on social media at the moment. They sharing tweets of proper wahabi inclined dayyuth likes Omar suliman of USA and others. Yes it's for Palestine and the intention could be good, but the repercussions? It's so easy to fall in devils trap and start listening to their speeches.

    Alahazrats foresight was amazing, he looked ahead of his time and could see this state of sunnis.

    The sad news is this is just beginning my friend, wait and watch as time passes. We will regret all leeway we gave to our sunnis.

    I speak first to myself, the most safest is the general rule; Don't associate with deviants, don't learn from them, don't listen to their speeches. This is the best antidote for sunnis. I rather listen to "not so learned" muballighs who don't know arabic (very well) than to listen to deviant inclined preachers who can quote the entire encyclopedia of imam azam In arabic.

    My 2 pennies on this matter.

    Allah protect the imaan of every sunni.
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2023
  8. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    Taking from deviants is poison. We are humans and it's our nature to become soft towards someone who says nice things. Even if we know that someone is a heretic, subconsciously we'll grow affinity if we take from him a few times. His ideas can then become appealing to us.

    Like we said in the other thread, only Sunnis for Sunnis.

    There are sayings about the person who is unworried that his faith could be lost. We sometimes speak to people who take from deviants and when warned they claim it won't affect them. It does. They don't even realise it.

    It's the job of the ulama to raise the bar when it comes to associating with deviants. But, unfortunately, in our time, it's the ulama themselves who are heedless in this so what hope for laity?
    Ghulam Ali likes this.
  9. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    there is another fatwa in fatawa razawiyyah vol 23, p708 (pdf 695)

    Snap 2023-11-01 at 00.39.26.png

    question: is the translation of Quran by nazir ahmed correct or not? is it permissible for students to read his translation in madrasah or not?
    answer: neither nazir ahmed's translation is correct nor his belief, he was an atheist. like he wrote other books filled with christianity and atheism to make money, similarly, this translation was made for monetary benefits, otherwise, how can a person understand quran when he does not believe in God. his translation must not be read.

    it is obvious that nazir ahmed's translation of every single verse would not be incorrect, but common people cannot spot his mistakes, and take everything as good because they are reading Quran.

    i don't remember if it was nazir ahmed who stole hafeez jalandhari's translation when he gave it to him to review, or it was vise versa, nevertheless both translations have mistakes.
    Ghulam Ali likes this.
  10. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    yes, i mistakenly cropped the reply, fixed and posted it in the previous post
  11. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    And the next fatwa says:

    مسئلہ ۳۱۴ : مرسلہ ڈاکٹر محمدواعظ الحق سعداﷲ لودی ڈاکخانہ خسروپور ضلع پٹنہ بوساطت مولوی ضیاء الدین صاحب ۱۵ ربیع الاول ۱۳۲۲ھ
    غیرمقلدوں سے مسئلہ دریافت کرناجائزہے یاناجائز؟

    الجواب : غیرمقلدوں سے مسئلہ دریافت کرناحماقت ہے۔
  12. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    there is no question about it that it is haraam, ala hazrat alaihi rahmah, in fatawa razawiyyah vol 23, page 682 (pdf 669), replies to such a question;

    Snap 2023-10-31 at 22.43.25.png

    question: what do scholars say about the following;
    1. is it permissible to send our kids for studies to wahabies?
    2. what is the ruling upon such a person who does it?

    answer: it is forbidden, forbidden, forbidden, and whoever does it is an enemy of kids and is a sinner

    يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا قُوا أَنفُسَكُمْ وَأَهْلِيكُمْ نَارًا
    O People who Believe! Save yourselves and your families from the fire

    the next question is also related;

    question: is it permissible to ask questions (sharay') from ghayr muqallidin

    answer: it is stupidity to ask questions from ghayr muqallidin (because they don't follow any mazhab)

    a question was asked if it is permissible to appoint a nonmuslim woman to teach gujrati language in a madrasah, ala hazrat alaihi rahmah wa riDwan replied;

    Snap 2023-10-31 at 21.23.41.png

    the company of women of other religions (noori: and sects) is fire (for girls). adult and sane men of knowledge have destroyed their religion due to this reason. the story of imran bin hittan raqqashi is well known, he was a great hadith scholar in the time of tabiy'in, and, God forbid, the company of a khariji woman (he married his khariji cousin) made him become a khariji. he claimed that his intention was to convert her to ahlussunah. when this is the result of (a deviant's) company then imagine how bad it would be to appoint a nonbeliever (and deviant) as a teacher because a teacher has more and greater influence (on his/her students).

    the answer is obvious, if the company of deviants is harmful to scholars then it is death for common people, and we have seen it. people start respecting the deviants, then after listening for a while they start raising objections, usually among other common people, and gradually start accepting the deviant beliefs because they never get answers from their common fellows. ironically, the majority distances themselves from sunni ulama.

    he should be informed about this if he did not know about the deviancy of those he recommended or shared their material. if he knew it then he should go back to books and sunni scholars, and stop preaching until he knows what he is preaching

    Last edited: Nov 1, 2023
    Abdullah Ahmed, Aqdas and Ghulam Ali like this.
  13. Ghulam Ali

    Ghulam Ali Well-Known Member

    Asalamu Alaykum everyone.

    This thread is specifically aimed at gathering referenced proofs and evidences against Sunni Ulama Kiram who share or have shared material from people who have non Sunni deviant beliefs. In particular once the said Alim has been made aware he then goes on to say 'Take the good and Leave the bad' and that's all.

    I was always of the belief that Sunni Ulama and shuyukh have continuously through the ages forbade the lay awam from reading watching listening to unreliable people who possess beliefs against AhluSunnah.

    The problem with take the good and leave the bad is that it is impossible for the layman to determine where exactly the good finishes and the bad begins.

    Questions: please help and gain rewards
    1. Is it permissible and wise for an Imam to share material from deviant ulama e suu amongst the masses thereby exposing them to heretical beliefs? What have senior and leading Ulama through the ages said about this?
    2. What is the ruling regarding take the good and leave the bad? Is it ok for Sunni laymen to access questionable/ non Sunni material and begin themselves to gauge the limits and draw their own conclusions?
    3. What is the advice that should be given to a sincere Sunni Alim who has made this mistake?

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