see, bazdawi has mad a good point below, and it is not disparagement. you feel so because you want your point of view be accepted. also, if you take a look, many of the heresies of those individuals have been refuted rationally on this forum. now if you look at my several previous posts there is no disparagement of yours, but i tried to present my view rationally with proofs from ahadith, but you ignored them. that is fine, we would like you to post good stuff, as well as refute the heresies of the deviants rationally, and free from disparagement, and insults. thread will be locked now.