status of hadith in mishkat about shaykhayn

Discussion in 'Hadith' started by abu Hasan, Jul 18, 2022.

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  1. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    request to all: please do not derail this discussion. please start other threads if you wish to say something else not related to this topic. thanks.

    remember that the hadith of mishkat was narrated by sayyidah ayishah. and we were examining its validity.
    but to prove it as mawDu'u/forgery people bring in DIFFERENT narration from another sahabi! that is the hadith of ammar ibn yasir which goes thus:

    in fawa'id of shawkani, p.337:

    fawayid shawkani, p337.png

    #21: that he SallAllahu alayhi wa sallam told jibril: "tell me about the merits (faDayil) of umar in the heavens.
    he replied: "O muhammad! if i were to tell you the virtues/praise (faDayil) of umar in the heavens for a time as long as nuH (alayhi's salam) remained (preaching) among his people - that is 950 years, his praise will not end. and indeed umar is a good deed from the good deeds of abu bakr.

    Hasan ibn arafah narrates this from ammar with a marfuu' chain (i.e. reaching the Prophet sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam)
    aHmad ibn Hanbal said: it is forged.
    in la'ali it is said: "it was cited by abu nuaym in his faDa'il al-Sahabah."

    i (shawkani) say: abu nuaym cited it. what is he? he is not the same as the one (i.e. imam ahmad) who criticised it and said: "it is forged".

    we have al-mawDu'at of ibn al-jawzi:
    mawduat ibnjawzi, n596 v1p66.png

    the third hadith (under this topic):

    informed us - > ali ibn ubaydullah
    said he: informed us -> ali ibn ahmad al-bundar
    and he said: informed us abu abdullah ibn baTTah
    who said: narrated to us abu ali ismayil ibn muhammad al-saffar
    who said: narrated to us Hasan ibn arafah
    who said: narrated to me walid ibn al-faDl al-anziy
    who said: narrated to me isma'yil ibn ubaydullah ibn nafiy al-baSri
    from Hammad ibn abi sulayman
    from ibrahim al-nakha'yi
    from `alqamah
    from `ammar ibn yasir that he said:

    Rasullah SallAllahu alayhi wa sallam said: "jibril came to me presently and i asked him: "O jibril tell me about the merits (faDayil) of umar in the heavens. he replied: "O muhammad! if i were to tell you the virtues/praise (faDayil) of umar in the heavens for a time as long as nuH (alayhi's salam) remained (preaching) among his people - that is 950 years, his praise will not end. and indeed umar is a good deed from the good deeds of abu bakr.

    aHmad ibn Hanbal has said: "this hadith is a forgery and i don't know the ismayil (mentioned in the chian)"
    abu'l fatH al-azdi said: he is a weak narrator.
    Umar99 likes this.
  2. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    it is not about "relying" upon it - as if there is no other hadith for his superiority. it is just a narration that is cited as ANOTHER - and there is no harm in accepting a weak narration.

    now the hadith of mishkat is thus in albani's edition:

    mishkat,albani, 6029.png

    every one picks it up from there and pontificates that it is mawDu'u citing suyuti from his la'ali.

    narrated by sayyidah ayishah (raDi'Allahu anha) and she said:

    the (blessed) head of RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam was in my lap on a bright night (i.e. a full-moon night) and i said:
    "O Messenger of Allah! is there anyone whose good deeds equal in number to the stars in the sky?"

    he said: "yes, umar"

    i said: "what about the good deeds of abu bakr?"

    he said: "all the good deeds of umar are like just one good deed among the good deeds of abu bakr"

    narrated by razin.

    albani's comments:

    khatib narrated in tarikh baghdad 7/135, in the biographical notice of burayhibn muhammad ibn burayh abi'l qasim al-bayy'iy with his sanad until (sayyidah) ayishah and he said: burayh has reported from ismayil ibn muhammad al-saffar false and forged narrations (batilah, mawDu'ah). and suyuti has copied this in his al-la'ali al-maSnu'ah 1/304 from khatib that he said: "forged hadith" and affirmed it.

    we now have 2 references to check. first comes khatib's notice in tarikh: (in the new edition, it is in 7/643)

    tarikh-baghdad, v7p643.png

    burayh ibn muhammad ibn burayh, abu'l qasim al-bayy'iy.

    he lived in jurjan and has reported from ismayil ibn muhammad al-Saffar false and forged narrations.
    this has been narrated to us from him by husayn ibn muhammad , the brother of al-khallal (thus):

    reported to us the brother of khallal, from his original book and said: narrated to me abu'l qasim burayh ibn muhammad ibn burayh al-baghdadi al-bayy'iy in jurjan (gorgan in today's iran).
    he said:
    narrated to us ismayil ibn muhammad al-saffar and he said:
    reported to us ahmad ibn manSur al-ramadi and he said:
    reported to us abdul razzaq ibn hammam and he said:
    reported to us ma'amar ibn rashid
    from zuhriy
    from hisham ibn `urwah
    from his father (i.e. `urwah)
    from (sayyidah) ayishah that she said:

    it was my (turn) night with RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam; and when the bed had joined me and him, i looked at the sky and saw the twinkling stars. i asked: "O Messenger of Allah is there any man in this world whose good deeds equal in number to the stars in the sky?"

    he said: "yes"

    i said: "who?"

    he said: "umar; and he is one good deed among the good deeds of your father"
    and in this book of his, with this isnad, there are a number of hadith with immensely objectionable/rejectable wording.
    the next is suyuti in his la'ali:

    laali suyuti, v1p304.png

    after repeating the narration as mentioned by khatib as above, suyuti says: 1/304.

    khaTib has said that this is forged (mawDu'u). burayh narrated from ismayil al-Saffar false and forged narrations. Allah knows best.

    there is mizan al-iytidal: #1160, 2/15

    mizaniytidal, 1160 v2p15.png

    burayh ibn muhammad: from ismayil al-Saffar - liar, fraud. he has forged the hadith: "O Messenger of Allah, is there a man whose good deeds are like the stars in number?" he said: "yes, umar. and he is a good deed among the good deeds of your father O ayishah".
    and he mentioned this with the chain found in bukhari and muslim via ismayil al-Saffar.

    and then khatib said: "in his book, there are a number of hadith with immensely objectionable/rejected wording".


    then suddenly people turn to another narration - the hadith of ammar ibn yasir - and conflate everything as just one hadith!
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2022
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  3. Ali_Bash

    Ali_Bash Active Member

    Bismillahi'r rahmani'r rahim

    Asalamu Alaikum

    My first reply here on this forum, Jazakallah Khair for giving me the opportunity to reply

    In regards to this narration the author of Mishkat has stated that it was narrated by Razīn who is Razīn bin Muawiyah Al-Abdar he passed away in the 500s (ah). His book in no longer with us which i believe is called Tajrīd ala-Ṣiḥah. This narration is present in al-Kahtib al-Baghdadis Tarikh v.7-pg.363 (Dar al-Gharb al-Islami). Its chain does include Abul Qāsim Burai bin Muḥammad about whom al-Khatb said: He narrates ḥadīth on the authority of Isma'īl bin Muḥammad al-Ṣafār thar are false fabrications (Ibid). Ibn Jawzi placed him in his al-Ḍuʿafā 1/138.
    Imam al-Dhahabi called him a Liar who makes up ḥadīth (Mizān al-I'tidal 2/15 DKI) Hafidh ibn Hajar placed this narration in his Lisān al-Mizān 2/244_245. Burhan al-dīn al-Halabi places this narration in his Al-Kashful-Hathith Aman Rumiya Biwāḍ'i al-Ḥadīth pg.75 and al-Hafidh Jalauddin al-Suyūṭī placed this narration in his Al-Lā'ali al-Maṣnūah Fī Ahahdith al-Mauḍūat 1/304 and he quoted al-Khatibs assessment of this hadith.

    If this ḥadīth is Mauḍū then there is no reason to rely on it for the Afzaliyat of Sayyiduna Abu Bakr Siddique is known by Ijma' and is Qati' and there are much stronger narrations to point that out

    Jazakumullahu Khairan
  4. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    now that some things have been resolved. let us proceed.

    bismillahi'r rahmani'r rahim

    the original question was about the hadith in mishkat:

    and the articles, footnoters, editors, are all waving frantically in all directions - and they all point to albani as if he is some irrefutable hadith master. albani's opinion is zilch. we will see shortly how and why these modern-day hadith analysers don't have basic understanding, common sense and reasoning abilities.

    it is only the ignorance of our age and the ease with which one can get shoddy research "published" on high quality paper, that allows such 'research' to be aired in public.

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  5. AR Ahmed

    AR Ahmed Veteran


    yes i was trying to find info on this narration but could only find this anonymous article
  6. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    i think you have just copied the references from some article. the pages/refs don't check out in the books that i have. i could place some of them but about the last two, it is not clear which hadith or narrator these two references talk about (which could be mentioned in the article).

    1. mizan al-iytidal, about burayh ibn muhammad. #1160, 2/15

    mizaniytidal, 1160 v2p15.png

    2. asna al-matalib (bayruti al-huut, d.1277AH), p344

    asna-matalib, p344.png

    3. al-mawDu'at ibn al-jawzi, #596, 1/66:

    mawduat ibnjawzi, n596 v1p66.png

    tazkirah al-mawdu'at: i checked both tahir fatni (patni/gujarati, d.986AH) and tahir maqdisi qaysarani, d.507AH.

    i couldn't place the riwayah that is alluded to as mawdu.

    mizan al-iytidal #6222: (the reference cites an older version) couldn't place which narrator is being discussed. given below is the reference from the older 3/224:
    mizan-old, n6222, v3p224.png
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2022
  7. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    whose article is this?
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2022
  8. AR Ahmed

    AR Ahmed Veteran

    A third mufti i called also said this hadith is in Matla al-Qamarayn:

    matlacopy1.jpeg matlacopy2.jpeg
  9. AR Ahmed

    AR Ahmed Veteran

    Another "article" fabricating this narration:

    وعن عائشة رضي الله عنها قالت: بينا رأس رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم في حجري في ليلة ضاحية إذ قلت: يارسول الله! هل يكون لأحد من الحسنات عدد نجوم السماء؟ قال: “نعم، عمر”، قلت: فأين حسنات أبي بكر؟ قال: *”إنما جميع حسنات عمر كحسنة واحدة من حسنات أبي بكر”.
    ٢. عمر تمہارے والد ہی کی نیکیوں میں سے ایک نیکی ہے.
    أَخبرنا أَبُومَنصُور القَزازُ، قال: أَخبرنا أَبُوبَكرٍ أَحمد بن عَلِي، قال: حَدَّثنا الحُسَينُ بن مُحَمد أَخُوالخَلالِ، قال: حَدَّثَنِي أَبُوالقاسِمِ بُرَيهُ بن مُحَمد بنِ بُرَيدٍ البَغدادِيُّ، قال: حَدَّثنا إِسماعِيلُ بن مُحَمد الصَّفارُ، قال: حَدَّثنا أَحمد بن مَنصُور الرَّمادِيُّ، قال: أَخبرنا عَبدالرَّزاقِ، قال: أَخبرنا مَعمَرٌ، عَن الزُّهرِيِّ، عَن هِشامِ بنِ عُروَةَ، عَن أَبِيه، عَن عائِشَةَ، قالت: «كانت لَيلَتِي مِن رَسُولِ الله صلى الله عليه وسلم، فَلَما ضَمَّنِي وإِياهُ الفِراشُ نَظَرتُ إِلَى السَّماءِ فَرَأَيتُ النُّجُومَ مُشتَبِكَةً، فَقُلتُ: يارَسُولَ الله صلى الله عليه وسلم! ھل یوجد فِي هَذِهِ الدُّنيا رَجُلٌ لَهُ حَسَناتٌ بِعَدَدِ نُجُومِ السَّماءِ؟ فَقال: نَعَم، قُلتُ: مَن؟ قال عُمر، وإِنَّهُ لَحَسَنَةٌ مِن حَسَناتِ أَبِيكِ».
    ان روایات کی اسنادی حیثیت:
    اس روایت کی سند میں ایک راوی” بُریة بن محمد بن برید البغدادی” ہے، اس کے بارے میں محدثین کی رائے اور اقوال کافی سخت ہیں:
    ١. خطیب بغدادی کہتے ہیں کہ اس کی روایات باطل من گھڑت ہوتی ہیں.
    قال الخَطِيبُ: لَهُ أحاديث باطِلَةٌ مَوضُوعَةٌ مُنكَرَةُ المُتُونِ جِدًّا.
    ٢. میزان الاعتدال میں اس کے بارے میں لکھا گیا ہے کہ یہ جھوٹا راوی ہے.
    بريه بن محمد عن إسماعيل الصفار: كذاب مدبر هو واضع حديث: يارسول الله! هل رجل له حسنات بعدد النجوم؟ قال: نعم عمر وهو حسنة من حسنات أبيك ياعائشة!…. فذكره بإسناد الصحيحين، عن إسماعيل الصفار.
    ثم قال الخطيب: وفي كتابه بهذا الإسناد عدة أحاديث منكرة المتون جدا.
    ● دوسری روایت حضرت عمار بن یاسر رضی اللہ عنہ کی سند سے ہے، اس میں یہ مضمون ہے کہ عمر رضی اللہ عنہ ابوبکر صدیق کی نیکیوں میں سے ایک نیکی ہے.
    أَنبَأَنا عَلِيُّ بن عُبَيدالله، قال: أَخبرنا عَلِيُّ بن أَحمد البُندارُ، قال: أَنبأنا أَبُوعَبدِالله بنِ بَطَّةَ، قال: حَدَّثنا أَبُوعَلِي إِسماعِيلُ بن مُحَمد الصَّفارُ، قال: حَدَّثنا الحَسن بن عَرَفَةَ، قال: حَدَّثنا الوَلِيدُ بن الفَضلِ الغُبَرِيُّ، قال: حَدَّثَنِي إِسماعِيلُ بن عُبَيد بنِ نافِعٍ البَصرِيُّ، عَن حَمادِ بنِ أَبِي سُلَيمانَ، عَن إِبراهِيم النَّخَعِيِّ، عَن عَلقَمَةَ، عَن عَمارِ بنِ ياسِرٍ، قال: قال رَسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم: «أَتانِي جِبرِيلُ آنِفًا، فَقُلتُ: يا جِبرِيلُ! حَدِّثنِي بِفَضائِلِ عُمر فِي السَّماءِ؟ فَقال: يا مُحَمد! لَو حَدَّثتُكَ بِفَضائِلِ عُمر فِي السَّماءِ مِثلَ ما لَبِثَ نُوحٌ فِي قَومِهِ أَلفَ سَنَةٍ إِلاَّ خَمسِينَ عامًا ما نَفِدَت فَضائِلُ عُمر، وإِنَّ عُمر لَحَسَنَةٌ مِن حَسَناتِ أَبِي بَكرٍ».
    [هذا الحديث يرويه الطبراني في “المعجم الأوسط” (2/158)، وأبويعلى في “المسند” (3/179)].
    اس روایت کی اسنادی حیثیت:
    اس سند میں دو راوی متکلم فیه ہیں:
    ١. ولید بن الفضل العنزی:
    اس کے بارے میں محدثین کے اقوال کافی سخت ہیں.
    ابن حبان کہتے ہیں کہ یہ اہل عراق سے منکر اور موضوع روایات نقل کرتا ہے.
    قال ابن حبان في “المجروحين” (3/82) في ترجمته: شيخ، يروي عن عبدالله بن إدريس وأهل العراق المناكير التي لا يشك من تبحر في هذه الصناعة أنها موضوعة، لا يجوز الاحتجاج به بحال إذا انفرد.
    ٢. اسماعیل بن عبید العجلی:
    یہ بھی ضعیف راوی ہے.
    وفيه أيضا: إسماعيل بن عبيد العجلي البصري، ضعيف (كمافي ميزانالاعتدال:1/238)
    اس روایت کا حکم:
    ١. ابوحاتم کہتے ہیں کہ یہ روایت باطل من گھڑت ہے.
    قال أبوحاتم: هذا حديث باطل موضوع، اضرب عليه. (العلل:2/385).
    ٢. امام أحمد بن حنبل کہتے ہیں کہ اسماعیل کو میں نہیں جانتا اور یہ روایت موضوع ہے.
    وقال الإمام أحمد: لا أعرف إسماعيل بن نافع، هذا حديث موضوع. (“المنتخب من العلل” للخلال، ص:108).
    ٣. اس روایت پر امام ابن جوزی، ابن قیم اور ذہبی نے موضوع کا حکم لگایا ہے.
    وحكم عليه بالوضع ابن الجوزي في “الموضوعات” (1/321)،
    وابن القيم في “المنار المنيف” (ص:115)،
    والذهبي في “ميزان الاعتدال” (1/238).
    خلاصہ کلام
    سوال میں مذکور مضمون تو باوجود تلاش کے نہ مل سکا، البتہ اس کے قریب کے مضمون کی کچھ روایات ملی ہیں لیکن وہ بھی سند کے لحاظ سے درست نہیں، لہذا اس مضمون کو آپ علیہ السلام کی طرف منسوب نہ کیا جائے.
    واللہ اعلم بالصواب
  10. AR Ahmed

    AR Ahmed Veteran

    (١) ميزان الاعتدال: ١ / ٣٠٦ رقم ١١٥٨.
    (٢) أسنى المطالب: ص ٥٨٨.
    (٣) الموضوعات: ١ / ٣٤٢.
    (٤) تذكرة الموضوعات: ص ١٩.
    (٥) ميزان الاعتدال: ٣ / 224 رقم 6222.

    A mufti told me

    The reason why it is fabricated is because of one narrator
    برية بن محمد
    He narrated hadith from إسماعيل الصنعاني that were flawed

    Another 'alim told me -

    The last line of the Hadith is in matlaul qamarain my version page 74 (3rd tabsirah) it says it’s weak but reliable in fazail
    In the commentary of mishkat by mulla ali qari there is no mention of this Hadith being maudoo so according to mulla ali qari and the author of mishkat (who are both muhaddiths) it won’t be maudoo because if it was maudoo it would be necessary for a muhaddith to mention it being maudoo.
    وَ اللهُ اَعْلَمُ
    I’ve even checked mir’at and it’s the same there both mulla ali qari and mufti Ahmad yar kha naimi have explained this Hadith but neither of the two have said it is maudoo which implies it is not maudoo
    وَ اللهُ اَعْلَمُ
    I’ll still keep looking for further research اِنْ شَاءَ اللهُ تَعَالىٰ
  11. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    how many sources? which sources?
  12. AR Ahmed

    AR Ahmed Veteran

    asalamu alaykum there is a hadith riwayat in Mishkat kitabul manaqib that i am trying to find the takhrij of, all the sources i have said itss mawdu but my na'imi mawlana friend is saying it is not mawdu. does anyone have an idea?

    6068 وَعَن عَائِشَة قَالَتْ: بَيْنَا رَأْسَ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ فِي حجري لَيْلَةٍ ضَاحِيَةٍ إِذْ قُلْتُ: يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ هَلْ يَكُونُ لِأَحَدٍ مِنَ الْحَسَنَاتِ عَدَدُ نُجُومِ السَّمَاءِ؟ قَالَ: «نَعَمْ عُمَرُ» . قُلْتُ: فَأَيْنَ حَسَنَاتُ أَبِي بَكْرٍ؟ قَالَ: «إِنَّمَا جَمِيعُ حَسَنَاتِ عُمَرَ كَحَسَنَةٍ وَاحِدَةٍ مِنْ حَسَنَاتِ أَبِي بَكْرٍ» رَوَاهُ رزين

    could it be that its mawdu outwardly but accepted by the awliya via kashf? i checked imam suyuti's book and it said it is mawdu'

    mawlana abu hasan?
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