Sunni View on Ibn Kathir and some other personalities?

Discussion in 'Aqidah/Kalam' started by Mohammad Hassan Raza, May 13, 2012.

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  1. Umar99

    Umar99 Veteran

    Is there any reference as to where hazrat said this? The link posted here does not seem to be working.

    جزاك الله خيرا
     
  2. Jazak Allahu Khairan

    Thank you everybody for your Help. This really clarified many doubts in my mind. Just one last question. We hold bothe Hazrat Shaykh-ul-Akbar and Hazrat Mulla 'Ali al-Qari in high esteem. Then was Hazrat Mulla Ali al-Qari mistaken in denouncing the works of Shaykh al-Akbar?
     
  3. sherkhan

    sherkhan Veteran

    Sayyidi AlaHazrat's Malfuzat and Sayyid Abu al-Husain Barkati's Siraj al-Awarif make occasional references to Shaykh al-Akbar's works. Even AlaHazrat's computation of the most probable occurence date of Qiyamah draws heavily upon Shaykh al-Akbar's prediction. Siraj al-Awarif extensively cites Ibn Arabi's Futuhat al-Makkiyyah in second and third section (lustre) of the book.

    In Malfuzat, AlaHazrat explains wahdat al-wujud in very concise terms (with likely intention to dissuade laymen from delving into it further).

    ----

    I have heard a number of instances where the ability of a Shaykh to discourse on Shaykh al-Akbar's Fusus al-Hikam is/was considered as the true yardstick of that scholar/sufi's spiritual station.

    While most of the Shaykh al-Akbar's work are inaccessible to laymen, his book Ruh al-Quds (translated as Sufis of Andalusia), which is a summary of his experience from different spiritual masters in the Maghrib, is definitely a safe, easy read.
     
  4. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    Wa3aleikum Salam

    You betcha!

    Yes, he defended Shaykh Al-Akbar and held him in very high esteem as a wali, along with ALL the other shuyukh of the Qadiri, Noori, Barakati, Ridawi salasil.
     
  5. Assalaamu 'Alaykum

    Brother 'Abd al-Qaadir

    Is it true that Ala Hazrat has defended Shaykh ibn Arabi?
     
  6. faqir

    faqir Veteran

    Fine by me but he doesn't even provide a single piece of evidence of Ibn Kathir's tajsim or his views being contrary to that of ahl al-sunna or why he is part of a deviant sect. Have any of Ibn Kathir's contemporaries or any earlier scholars held a similar view and if so who?

    What is the Mufti's view on Imam al-Dhahabi?
     
  7. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    Shaykh Abdul Wahhab Al-Sha3rani in his Yawaqeet says that tamperings and discrepancies made their way into the works of Shaykh Al-Akbar, and that he is pure of many of the blasphemous points found in books that are attributed to him - and this is the right opinion - afaik according to Ala Hazrat too, this is the case.

    The shias attribute a million and one bogus and blasphemous statements to Sayyidina Maula Ali and Hasanayn Kareemayn and Imam Ja3far Sadiq radi Allahu 3anhum, and others. It doesn't mean they said it. Same story here with zindiq sufis and Shaykh Al-Akbar. Just because some idiot like mark hanson says Shaykh Al-Akbar said this or that, it doesn't mean he did.
     
  8. That really is complicated. On one hand we have Great Scholars who praise him and on the other hand we have scholars like Hazrt Mulla Ali al-Qari who condemn him. Very difficult really to say anything. I am honoured Janaab abu Hasan that you personally answered my question.

    @bro Faqir The piece of information you provided also has put me in double mind. But thank you brother for your information.

    I would rather follow Huzoor Taajush Shariah in this matter. For I have deleted Tafsir ibn Kathir which I downloaded, but I will not delete Qasas-ul-Anbiya!

    Thanks a lot everybody!
     
  9. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    it is quite complicated.

    even mulla ali al-qari in his two rasayil (one on wahdat al-wujud and another on purported iman of firawn) includes both opinions; though, he leans towards his opposition or even takfir. (the copy of the rasayil i have - PDF - is unreadable on many key pages. in fact, yesterday night i read the whole risalah, except for the washed-out pages; but the pages deteroriate in the middle of interesting analysis..)

    ----
    ali qari mentions that great imams like tajuddin ibn aTayillah as-sakandari and imam as'ad al-yafiyi have considered him a great wali; and others have criticised him.

    he repeatedly cites sultan al-ulama, shaykh izzuddin ibn abd as-salam as having called him a zindiq. others he mentions are al-simnani, ibn hajar, ibn taymiyah (of course) and his students.

    the third position he mentions is: that we do not speak about shaykh ibn arabi himself, though the passages in his books like fuSuS and futuHat are kufr.

    ----
    as for us, great muhaddithin and fuqaha like imam jalaluddin suyuti, ibn hajar al-haytami, shaykh abdu'l haq dihlawi, abdu'l wahhab al-sha'arani, ibn abidin and almost all later ulama/sufiyah have praised him and called him muHiyuddin shaykh al-akbar.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2012
    Umar99 likes this.
  10. faqir

    faqir Veteran

  11. brother abu Hasan, please clarify one more thing. The Sunni view on Ibn Arabi? Beacuse Hazrat Mulla Ali al-Qari has strongly criticised him (I think on his view on the Imaan of The Pharaoh).
     
  12. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    hafiz ibn kathir was a student of ibn taymiyah alright; yet, i doubt that he followed him in everything.

    --------------
    for example, the verse of istiwa in various places; ibn kathir insists that the tafsir is done without tak'yif, tashbih, ta'aTil and tamthil.

    تقدم الكلام على ذلك في سورة الأعراف بما أغنى عن إعادته أيضاً، وأن المسلك الأسلم في ذلك طريقة السلف إمرار ما جاء في ذلك من الكتاب والسنة من غير تكييف ولا تحريف ولا تشبيه ولا تعطيل ولا تمثيل.

    in surah al-furqan, he stays miles away from the position of tajsim:
    ثُمَّ ٱسْتَوَىٰ عَلَى ٱلْعَرْشِ} أي: يدبر الأمر، ويقضي الحق، وهو خير الفاصلين


    also see: 2:29, 7:54, 10:3, 13:2, 20:5, 25:59, 32:4, 41:11.

    ----------------------------
    tafsir of a'ayun: 54:15, is unlike that of anthropomorphists

    tafsir of saaq: 68:42, it is overwhelmingly the tafsir of ahlu's sunnah and not a hint of tajsim there.

    tafsir of wajh: 28:88, classic sunni tafsir and the same alahazrat translated in kanz.

    tafsir of yad: 5:64, no hint of tajsim either.

    -------------------------------
    in fact, he departs from the position of his shaykh (ibn taymiyyah) concerning the ziyarah of the Habib sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam. see the tafsir of the verse 64 of surah nisaa (4:64) where he mentions the narration of utbi positively.

    ---------------------------
    in al-bidayah wa'n nihayah, he praises the amir who started the practice of mawlidu'n nabiy al-malik al-muzaffar abu sayid al-kukabri, and mentions the mawlid celebrated by him in an admiring manner. he also mentions ibn DiHyah's book: at-tanwir fi mawlidi'l bashir an-nadhir.

    (see events of the year 630) (devbandis for some strange reason misrepresent this and claim that hafiz ibn kathir slammed the amir)

    -----------------------------

    shaykhu'l islam ibn Hajar said in inba'a al-ghumur and al-durar al-kaminah: that his books are beneficial; which was quoted by suyuti in his dhayl Tabaqat al-Huffaz; suyuti also praised him.

    dawudi (d.945AH) also praises him in his Tabaqat al-Mufassirin, but also adds that he was close to his shaykh ibn taymiyyah and that he followed him in many of his opinions; that he used to give fatwa (in spite of his being a shafiyi) according to ibn taymiyah in the matter of triple-talaq; and because of this, he suffered greatly.

    ------------------
    in my opinion, tafsir ibn kathir is a very good reference for hadith and akhbar related to tafsirز so also are his two other books: al-bidayah wa'n nihayah and qaSaSu'l anbiya of which, the latter doesn't have an alternative in that subject.

    but yes, it has always caused me discomfort that he was ibn taymiyah's student and his account of ibn taymiyah's trials mentioned in bidayah is very biased.

    Allah ta'ala knows best.
     
  13. Jazaak Allah Brother Wasim. I had Tafseer ibn-e-Kathir but since you have clarified it with valid Evidence (Huzoor Taajush Shariah)

    But regarding ibn Arabi it is, afaik, Hazrat Mulla Ali al-Qari who contradicted him. Can you please clarify?
     
  14. Wasim

    Wasim Guest

    Its only Wahabi
     
  15. Wasim

    Wasim Guest


    Is it permissible to read or teach the exegesis of Ibn Kathīr?

    It is impermissible to read or indeed teach the exegesis of the Qur’ân by Ibn Kathīr. The general public must abstain/refrain from reading or even viewing works that are attributed or authored by the Waĥābīs/Deobandīs, or any other false sect.

    Ibn Kathīr was a student of Ibn Taymiyyah and like his teacher, he too objected to a number views upheld by the Aĥl as-Sunnah wa al-Jama’ah. It was from the ideology of his teacher Ibn Taymiyyah, that the Waĥābī sect was born. Furthermore, Ibn Kathīr, much like his teacher, also agreed to ideas such as the belief of tajsīm, amongst others. For these reasons it is not permissible for anyone to study/read the exegesis of Ibn Kathīr, nor for that matter, any other Waĥābī/Deobandī literature.

    This ruling is also applicable upon the scholars of the Aĥl as-Sunnah (aside from those working in the field of refutation); they must all abstain from studying works of the false sects and instead, study the works of the noble Imāms of the Aĥl as-Sunnah.

    Huzur Taaj al-Shari'ah Mufti Akhtar Raza Khan

    Read Here 1st link PDF File.
     
  16. Wasim

    Wasim Guest

    According to Ala Hazrat Imam Ahmed Raza Khan RadiAllahu anhu Hazrat Hussain Bin Mansoor Hallaj RadiAllahu Anhu did not utter ana'l -Haqq - I am the Truth, Its in Fatawa Razviya, Hazrat Hussain Bin Mansoor Hallaj RadiAllahu Anhu Says Ana La Haq (or something like that) which means Main iska sabse jyada haqdaar hoon.
     
  17. Very good brother Ahlus Sunnah. But I was asking about The views of Sunni scholars about him not his biography
     
  18. ahlus-sunnah

    ahlus-sunnah Veteran

    al-Hallaj (c. 858 - March 26, 922) was a Persian writer and teacher of Sufism. His full name was Abu al-Mughith al-Husayn ibn Mansur al-Hallaj.

    Fragments

    He was born around 858 in Tur, Iran to a wool seller. Al-Hallaj's grandfather may have been a Zoroastrian. His father lived a simple life, and this form of lifestyle greatly interested the young al-Hallaj. As a youngster he memorized the Quran and would often retreat from worldly pursuits to join other mystics in study.

    Al-Hallaj would later marry and make a pilgrammige to Mecca. After his trip to the holy city, he traveled extensively and wrote and taught along the way. He travelled as far as India and Central Asia gaining many followers, many of which accompanied him on his second and trips to Mecca. After this period of travel, he settled down in the Abbasid capital of Baghdad.

    Among other Sufis, Al-Hallaj was an anomaly, many sufi masters felt that it was inappropriate to share mysticism with the masses, yet Al-Hallaj openly did so in his writings and through his teachings. He would begin to make enemies, and the rulers saw him as a threat. This was exacerbated by times when he would fall into trances which he attributed to being in the presence of God. During one of these trances, he would utter Ana al-Haqq, meaning that "I am the Truth", which was taken to mean that he was claiming to be God, as Al-Haqq is one of the Ninety Nine Names of Allah.

    This utterance would lead him to a long trial, and subsequent imprisonment for eleven years in a Baghdad jail. In the end, he would be tortured and publicly crucified by the Abbasid rulers for what they deemed as a heresy. Many accounts tell of Al-Hallaj's calm demeanor even while he was being tortured, and indicate that he forgave those who had executed him. He died on March 26, 922.

    His writings are very important to only Sufis, but to all Muslims. His example is seen by some as one that should be emulated, especially his calm demeanor in the face of torture and his forgiving of his tormentors. Others continue to see him as a heretic.



    Mansur al-Hallaj: Sayings

    ana'l -Haqq - I am the Truth.
    (this is the saying which apparently earned al-Hallaj his martyrdom - al Haqq also means God)

    You know and are not known; You see and are not seen.
    (Akhbar al-Hallaj 44, 1.4)

    Your Spirit mixed with my Spirit little by little, by turns, through reunions and abandons.
    And now I am Yourself, Your existence is my own, and it is also my will.

    (Diwan al-Hallaj)

    I find it strange that the divine whole can be borne by my little human part,
    Yet due to my little part's burden, the earth cannot sustain me.

    (Akhbar al-Hallaj, 11)

    I have seen my Lord with the eye of my heart, and I said: "Who are You?" He said:"You."
    (Diwan al-Hallaj, M. 10)

    I do not cease swimming in the seas of love, rising with the wave, then descending; now the wave sustains me, and then I sink beneath it; love bears me away where there is no longer any shore.
    (Diwan al-Hallaj, M. 34)



    I am He whom I love,
    and He whom I love is I:
    We are two spirits
    dwelling in one body.
    If thou seest me,
    thou seest Him,
    And if thou seest Him,
    thou seest us both.


    al-Hallaj, Kitab al-Tawasin, in The Mystics of Islam


     
  19. Assalaamu 'Alaykum

    What is the belief of The Ahlus-Sunnah on the Aqidah of Ibn Kathir, Ibn Arabi, Mansur al-Hallaj etc?

    I have heard some people say good words about them. But some people condemn them, surprisingly both groups belonging to Ahlus Sunnah!

    Please clarify.
     

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