the deobandiyya

Discussion in 'Refutation' started by Tālib ul-Haq, Jan 1, 2019.

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  1. Tālib ul-Haq

    Tālib ul-Haq New Member

    My life in Darul Uloom Bury.

    So i was in year 9 or 10 i cant remember exactly, and it was around November time. I was starving that day because i never ate the food that was served. It was around 10pm that i decided to ask an over 16, who i knew, if he was in town. He said yes he was in town and so i asked him if he could bring me takeaway on the way up. He agreed. Later around 2am i got a message from him saying that hes back with the food and to meet him in the basement to collect it. Little did i know that it wasnt him texting me. So i went to the basement and i was slightly surprised. It wasn’t him. It was his friend Anees ur Rahman aka “Afghan”. And there was no food. It was afghan texting me all this time, not the guy i knew.

    I reluctantly asked him where the food was to which he replied there is none. So i asked why he called me here then. So he replied by asking if i wanted a cigarette or anything to which i rejected. After a short while he said that he’d pay me £50 if id do him a favour. As naive as i was i asked him what the favour was to which he said he couldnt tell me.

    Again, i asked what the favour was. He said he couldnt tell me. So i kept asking and asking. He eventually gave in and literally asked me for sex. He said i wouldnt have to do anything at all. I couldn’t believe what i was hearing i just stood there frozen in shock. The damage has already been done, he said, implying that i dont have a choice now. I rejected, rejected and rejected. After it became apparent to him that i wasnt going to give in, he said that he’d be given responsibility and be made the main prefect in a few years time. He said to me that he had to ask to see if i was gay. I knew he was lying and i just wanted to get out of there.

    I returned to my room that night, afraid, shocked and in total despair at what had happened. That whole night i never slept. Just lay there in my bed crying.

    Tb to year 11. Afghan, was now the main prefect, however i never thought too much about it. Until one night he came round for lights off. I could hear his footsteps approaching my door, so i pretend to be asleep. He walks in and closes the door behind him. He tells me to get out of bed so i did. And then he says that he wanted to search me for cigarettes. I said okay search me for cigarettes.

    After he searched me he said that he’d have to do search me again. Again I completely froze and was in shock, as his hand pressed against my ass cheeks.

    He then put his hand inside my pants, and started to stroke me. I was just a kid, looking back i wanted to scream, i wanted to kill him, i couldnt. I froze, completely powerless. I couldnt to anything.

    You really think i wanted to this? He said as he pushed me against the wall slapped me and then grabbed my testicles. I was told to do this to see if you’re gay. It only lasted a few minutes, but since then what happened has replayed in my mind time and time again.

    A few weeks ago my counsellor said this incident was the root of my anxiety. Now i have to live with what happened and i accept that. But he should know that what he done to me was unacceptable. The person who was supposed to look after me, done this to me.

    He let me down. But more over, did darul uloom do proper checks on him before he was given such a responsibility? If not then they are as culpable as him.

    Honestly it took soo much for me to write this post and speak out because of the shame associated with it, so if there’s anyone else who’s suffered like this then please speak out too and know you dont have to suffer alone.

    Thank you to Shah Lalon Amin for speaking about what he had to endure and giving me the courage to do the same.

    May 2019 be a year of healing.

    Taken from
  2. absalih

    absalih Active Member


    (This is from a Deobandi website run by Majlisul Ulama South Africa-for a critical reading)

    Al-Sayyid Muhammad al-Hasan ibn Alawi ibn Abbas ibn Abd al-Aziz al-Maliki (1947 – 2004) rahimahullah has authored a book “Mafahim Yajib ‘an Tusahhah”.

    The subject of this book is to validate from Qur’an & Hadith some controversial issues that are practiced in certain Muslim communities (especially those with strong sufi affiliations) but have been very severely critized by the Salafi scholars of Saudi Arabia.

    This book was translated into Urdu language and published as “Islah e Mafaheem”, by individuals having close relations with Hadhrat Sufi Mohammad Iqbal sahib. Hadhrat Sufi sahib’s initial baiyat was with Mawlana Khair Mohammad Jalandhuri (rahimahullah) and afterwards with Hadrat Sheikhul Hadith Mawlana Zakariya (rahimahullah). Both of them were outstanding ahle sunnah scholars of Deobandi heritage. However, after his migration to Madinah e Munawwara Hadhrat Sufi sahib (rahimahullah) became very close to Shaykh Alawi (rahimahullah).

    Shaykh Alawi Maliki (rahimahullah) personally visited Pakistan and requested prominent contemporary scholars to write introduction to this urdu translation. Among them were Mawlana Abdul Qayoom Haqqani and Mawlana Malik Khandhlawi (rahimahullah).

    The publication of Urdu translation in Pakistan raised an uproar in the Deobandi community. As a matter of fact the content of this book were totally against the Deobandi minhaj. Most of the Deobandi scholars did not agree with the author’s claim. Being crystal clear, for them it was not an issue to go into further discussions. However, for the common, Urdu reading, lay public, who could have been easily misled by this book articles were written to clearify the issue.

    I just want to mention and list these articles here. They are:

    1. Review of “Islahae Mafaheem”. By Mufti Abdus Sattar (rahimahullah), chief-mufti Khairul madaris, Multan, & president of the Islamic research Council.

    Various prominent Deobandi scholars endorsed it.

    2. Kitab Islahe Mafaheem Urdu par ik tehqiqi nazar. By Mufti Abdush-Shakoor Tirmidhi (rahimahullah), khalifa of Sheikhul Islam Mawlana Zafar Ahmad Usmani rahimahullah (author of Ala us sunan) and Hadhrat Mufti Mohammad Shafi rahimahullah (founder of Darul Uloom Karachi). Published in “Maqalat e Trimizi”, page 208-221

    3. Book review in monthly Al-Balagh (Urdu), by Mufti Taqi Usmani sahib. Published in Tabseray (new edition).

    4. Tehqiqi nazar, by Hadhrat Mawlana Ismail Badat sahib of Madinah e Munawwarah, khalifa of Hadhrat Sheikhul hadith Mawlana Zakariya sahib (rahimahullah). This is the most detailed one.

    Knowing the details and fiqhi incorrectness of this book most of the introducers (who were alive) withdrew their recommendations. Some of the people who were involved in its publication repented and acknowledged their mistake in written and public speeches.

    However, the book is still available in the market.

    So be aware!
  3. absalih

    absalih Active Member

    (4) Not all scholars of Turkey are in praise of Deobandis. See what the great late Sunni Naqsbandi Scholar Shaykh Huseyn Hilmi Isik (d.1422Hijri ,Istanbul, Turkey) wrote ,while refuting Tablighi Jamaath,under the heading 'Deviation of Tabligh al-Jama'at from the Ahl as-Sunnat':
    There is a group of people who have been visiting Islamic countries and preaching and advising Muslims under the name Tabligh jamaat. Leaving India and Pakistan in gangs of three to five persons, these people have been going all over the world. They say that they try to spread Islam. They claim to be in the path of as-Sahaba. Some of them also say that they follow the Hanafi madhhab and admire Ibn Taymiyya. Though they speak very usefully and righteously and since the fact that they never mention the names and words of Islamic scholars and seem to hush up part of the Ahl as-Sunnat knowledge, they arouse suspicion and sorrow. In the following, the writings of some of the religious authorities living in India and Pakistan about them is given: "They are heretics. They call themselves Jamaat at-tabligh. Their center is in Delhi [with large branches in Karachi and Lahore in Pakistan.] Wherever they go, they lay very much stress upon performing salat. They give useful and necessary religious information. They call these activities of theirs 'kast' in Urdu language. It is said that their organization was founded by an Indian named Mawlana Muhammad Ilyas. This man was born in Kandla in 1303 A.H. (1886). He was Rashid Ahmad Gangohi's disciple. It is written on the 43rd and 49th pages of the book Mawlana Ilyas Uranki din Dawat by one of Ilyas's close disciples that he stayed near him for ten years. When Rashid Ahmad died in 1323 (1905) he was taught by Khalil Ahmad Saharanpuri. In his Urdu book, Khalil Ahmad [d. Medina, 1346 (1928)] says that the devil is more learned than Rasulullah ('alaihi 's-salam). Rashid Ahmad says on the 51st page of Barahin-i qati'a that Khalil Ahmad's book was a blessed one and kept it at the place called 'Bait-i 'ain-i Islam.' Rashid Ahmad was the Khalifa of Haji Imdadullah al-Madani [d. Mecca, 1317 (1899)], and was first taught by Ismail Dahlawi, who wrote on the 38th page of Taqwiyat al-iman which is the Urdu translation of Ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab's Kitab at-tawhid, 'Rasulullah ('alaihi 's-salam) died and rotted away. He became soil. He who believes that he will intercede in Resurrection becomes a polytheist.' Another tutor of Ilyas was Ashraf 'Ali Tahanawi who also was a Khalifa of Haji Imdadullah of the Chishtiyya Tariqa. In the first part of his Urdu book Hifz al-iman, he writes very loathsome things which reduce the high grade of Rasulullah ('alaihi 's-salam) to the low degree of a child, of a mad person or of animals. All the four tutors of Ilyas became unbelievers because of such writings of theirs in their books. Ilyas praises, exalts and excessively respects these unbelievers. He says that they are the most eminent awliya' of their time. The 114th page of the book Malfuzat-i Hadrat-i Mawlana Ilyas Rahmatullahi 'alaih is full with such praises. He says about his shaikh Rashid Ahmad, 'Had not I seen him, my heart would not have attained tranquility. Whenever I woke up at night I would go to his room, look at his face and then come back and go to sleep. His love, like the blood in my veins, has penetrated everywhere in me.' (pp. 44, 49, Mawlana Ilyas Uranki). Allahu ta'ala declares in the last ayat of the surat al-Mujadala, 'Those who believe in Allahu ta'ala and the Day of Resurrection will dislike those [unbelievers] who do not obey Allahu ta'ala and His Messenger ('alaihi 's-salam). Allahu ta'ala will fill with iman the hearts of those who dislike unbelievers even though they were their fathers, sons, brothers or relatives.' All the members of Tabligh jamaat exaggerate and praise Ilyas and his teachers very much and say 'rahmatullahi 'alaih' when they mention or hear their names. They spread their above-mentioned books everywhere.

    "The Ahl as-Sunnat scholars wrote many books in order to refute the Tabligh group and to reveal the fact that they were heretics. They could not answer these books at all. Hadrat Mawlana 'Abd al-'Alim Siddiqi wrote that Ilyas's teachers were in an endeavor to demolish Islam from within." [This is written in detail also in the books al-mustanad, Usul al-arba'a fi tardid al-Wahhabiyya, ad-dawlat al-Makkiyya and Hediyya-t-ul-Mehdiyyin, which were reproduced in Istanbul in 1395 (1975).]

    When Ilyas died in 1363 (1949) the successor was his son, Muhammad Yusuf Kandhlawi [b. Delhi, 1335 (1917); d. Lahore, buried Delhi, 1394 (1974)]. Yusuf's three-volume book, Hayat-us-Sahaba, was translated into Turkish and published in 1395 (1975). Because as-Sahaba are praised much in this book it arouses admiration in the reader. But there is a famous saying: "Judge a man by his actions, not by his words." One who believes in the superiority of as-Sahaba and loves them has to follow in their path, which is the path shown by the Ahl as-Sunnat scholars. The sign of love for as-Sahaba is to learn the fiqh books of one of the four Ahl as-Sunnat madhhabs, to endeavor to disseminate this knowledge and to live up to it. Muhammad Yusuf was succeeded by his son, Shaikh In'am al-Hasan, who was the hadith teacher at Mazahir-i 'Ulum Madrasa in Saharanpur, India. Abu 'l-Hasan 'Ali Nadwi, the director of Nadwat al-ulama' [founded in Lucknow, India in 1310 (1891)], praises al-Imam ar-Rabbani Ahmad as-Sirhindi and his services in his book Ad-da'wat al-Islamiyya [Lucknow, 1395 (1975)], but adds his praises for Ismail Dahlawi (killed in 1246), Nadhir Husain Dahlawi (d. 1320), the madrasa in Diobend which was founded by Muhammad Qasim Nanawtawi [d. 1317 (1899)], one of the Khulafa' of Imdad-ullah, in 1288 (1871), Ashraf Ali Tahanawi (d. 1362), the Tabligh group and its founder, Muhammad Ilyas. This faqir, the author, has read the book Taqwim al-bayan, Persian translation of Ismail Dahlawi's Taqwiyat al-iman [Pakistan, 1396 (1976)] and come to the conclusion that Ismail is not only a sheer ignoramus but also a non-madhhabi idiot who strives to censure the right by alloying it with the wrong. May Allahu ta'ala protect Muslims from reading and believing such heretical writings and falling into endless calamity! Amin!"
  4. absalih

    absalih Active Member

    (3) Syed Muhammad Ibn Alavi al Maliki(rah),from whom i had Ijaza ,did study Hadith from Deobandi Zakariyyak khandelavi,in his youth ,when he was unaware of their true beliefs.It is an old story.Still,the respected sayyed .did not take Sufi Path,from them,but it was from Qutb eMadina,Shaykh Diyayudheen Madani (qs),who was a khalifa of A'ala hazrat Imam Ahmad Raza Khan (qs).Ater ,he had written his Mafaheem,deobandis had become very hostile to him.See what was written,in their infamous forum:
    Hafiz Safaraz Hassan Khan - ustad at Jamia Madania Bahawalpur, grandson of Imam Ahl al-Sunnah ‘Allamah Sarfaraz Khan Safdar (may Allah have mercy on him) writes,

    "It is known to all that my grandfather (may Allah have mercy upon him) used to have strong attachment and association with the maslak of Ahl al-Sunnah wa al-Jama’ah. He did not tolerate minor flexibility in this regard and was a perfect embodiment of “la yakhafuna laumata layim” (who do not fear the accusation of the accusers). An Arab from Makkah, Muhammad bin 'Alawi Maliki Sahib (who is by maslak a Barelwi), wrote two books namely Al-Zakhayir al-Muhammadiyyah and Hawl al-Ihtifal bi Zikra Mawlid al-Nabwi al-Sharif. Many of the contents of these books were objected by Shaykh Abd Allah bin Sulayman bin Mani’, member of Ulama Board of Saudi Arabia and Qadhi of Makkah Mukarramah, and he published a book in his refutation in 1403 named Hiwar ma’a al-Maliki fi rad Munkaratihi wa Dhalalatih. After the publication of the book, when the supporters of Alawi published Islah-i-Mafahim the Urdu version of Mafahim Yajibu an Tusahhah, it struck the Ahl Haq that the innovations (bid’ahs) and polytheism (shirk) is presented as pure religion. So, the elder scholars raised objections and warned the people in their articles, fatawas and letters against it that ‘Islah-i-Mafahim’ is a collection of beliefs and practices based on polytheism and bid’ah which was cunningly labeled with tawhid and sunnah. As per his custom and taste, my grandfather sided with haq and the Ahl Haq and distanced himself from Islah-i-Mafahim and other false ideas mentioned in the books of Alawi. Once I asked him about Alawi Maliki Sahib, he said: 'I have the same views which Hadhrat Qadi [‘Qaid Ahl al-Sunnah ‘Allamah Qadi Mazhar Hussain, khalifa mujaz of Shaykh al-Islam Mawlana Madani, may Allah have mercy on them] had.' Then, I read for him a treatise of Dr. Mufti Abd al-Wahid (Mufti of Jamia Madaniyyah, Lahore) namely Muhammad Alawi Maliki kay ‘Aqaid unki Tahrirat kay Ayine main [Beliefs of Muhammad Alawi Maliki in the light of his works]. Having listened some texts, he spoke out: 'He is more bid’ati than Ahmad Raza Khan Barelwi'.


    'Ulama of Deoband warned against some of his books in particular Mafahim. Many scholars of Ahl al-Sunnah wal Jamah Deoband wrote refutation of numerous 'aqaid and masa'il in Mafahim. All that was published together in a book called Tahqiqi Nazar. This book was compiled by Mufti Muhammad Abu Bakr Alawi, a graduate of Dar al-Ulum Karachi, at the instructions of Mawlana Muhammad Ismail Badat Madani, khalifa of Shaykh al-Hadith Mawlana Zakariyya (may Allah have mercy on him). It was published by Madrassah Khuddam Ahl al-Sunnat, Lahore.

    ‘Ulama of Deoband wrote detailed refutation of ‘aqiad of Muhammad Alawi Maliki mentioned in Mafahim and his other books; declared him mubtadi and outside the fold of Ahl al-Sunnah wal-Jamah because of the beliefs he promoted in his books.

    Those scholars who wrote detailed rebuttal include:

    1. ‘Allamah Qadi Mazhar Hussain, Chakwal.
    2. Shaykh Muhammad Yusuf Ludhianwi Shahid, Karachi.
    3. Mufti Sayyid Abd al-Shakur Tirmidhi, Sargodha.
    4. Mufti Abd al-Sattar, Khayr al-Madaris Multan.
    5. Dr. Mufti Abd al-Wahid, Lahore.

    After Mufti 'Abd al-Sattar, head of Majlis Tahqiqati Islami Pakistan (Islamic Research Academy), wrote refutation of Muhammad Alwi Maliki following scholars signed the document and fully agreed with Mufti 'Abd al-Sattar.

    1. Mufti Jamil Ahmad Thanwi, Jamia Ashrafiyyah Lahore
    2. Mufti Taqi Usmani, Karachi.
    3. Mufti Rafi Usmani, Karachi.
    4. Dr. ‘Allamah Khalid Mahmud, U.K.
    5. Shaykh Sayyid Nafis Shah al-Hussaini, Lahore.
    6. Mawlana Amin Safdar Okarwi, Khayr al-Madaris Multan.
    7. 'Allamah Abd al-Qayyum Haqqani, Dar al-Ulum Haqqania Akora Khattak.
    8. Mufti Sher Muhammad Alawi, Jamia Ashrafiyya Lahore.
    9. Mawlana Ashiq Ilhaqi Bulandshahri, Madina.
    10. Mufti Muhammad Farid, Akora Khattak.
    11. Mawlana Muhammad Ismail Badat Madani, Madina.
    12. Mufti Nazir Ahmad, Jamia Imdadiyya Faisalabad.
    13. Mufti Abd al-Salam Chatgami, Banuri Town Karachi.
    14. Mawlana Muhammad Akbar, Qasim al-Ulum Multan.
    15. Mawlana Faidh Ahmad, Qasim al-Ulum Multan.
    16. Mawlana Abd al-Ghani, Jamia Madania Lahore.
    17. Mawlana Jamal Ahmad, Dar al-Ulum Faisalabad.
    18. Mawlana Javed Hussain Shah.
  5. absalih

    absalih Active Member

    The famous saying Scholars are weighed by truth & not vice versa applies,to here also:
    (1) About Ima Zahid Kawthari (rah) ,[FONT=&quot]Imam Abu Zahra's eulogy of al-Kawthari after the latter's death: READS [/FONT][FONT=&quot]"Imam al-Kawthari was a true scholar; the scholars knew his knowledge. I knew him years before meeting him. I knew him through his writings in which the light of truth shone forth. I knew him through his commentary of manuscripts which he undertook to publish. By Allah! My amazement at the manuscript did not match my amazement at the commentary of the editor. Even when the original manuscript was a brief epistle, yet the Imam's commentary on it would turn it into a major work that should be read. Truly one's insight and wide erudition show plainly in such commentaries. All this he did with an elegant style, subtle allusions, forceful analysis, accomplished accuracy, and total mastery over his own thought and writing technique. It could not occur to the mind of the reader that he was a non-Arab writer and not patently Arab. ... Yet it is not really astonishing, for he was Turkish in ancestry, education, and everyday life at the time he lived in Istanbul (al-Astana) but his scholarly life was purely Arabic, for he read nothing but Arabic, and nothing filled his head but the shining light of Muhammadan Arabic. .."
    Can such a scholar be aware of the deviations written in Urdu books?.
    (2) As for
    [/FONT]Shaykh abu Ghuddah,he was influenced by many scholars,as
    [FONT=&quot]In the 1940's the Shaykh met with Hasan Al-Banna, leader of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. When he returned to Syria he was very active in the work of da'wah both generally and with the brotherhood, as his character was highly trusted and he possessed distinctive leadership qualities.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]After he took up his residence,in SAUDI ARABIA,many of his views changed. [/FONT]He shows that he has immense respect for the above persons, and praises them a lot and gives references to his early works and tahqiqs where he talked about Ibn Taymiyya.

    - He gives Ibn Taymiyya numerous times lofty titles such as "Shaykh al-Islam" and declares it nonsense that he declared him an unbeliever (p. 24-30).

    - He gives immense praise to his student Ibn al-Qayyim and refutes the lie attributed to him that he declared him kafir (p. 30-35). He again refers to his other tahqiqs that were published.

    - His refutation of istigatha with the dead (p. 35-38). It was said that he declared it permissible and the one who says that it is shirk: he himself is an unbeliever. This is not the case and totally baatil and asks them "Where did I say that?". Then he says that istigatha is not permissible. He also refers to one of his earlier tahqiq where he refuted the wording 'ghawth al-thaqalayn' used by Imam Abd al-Hayy al-Lucknawi.

    - He gives respect to Shaykh Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab and calls him Imam al-Da'wa and states "Allah have mercy on him" behind his name.

    - He agrees with the division of tawhid made by Ibn Taymiyya (p. 38).

    - He discusses the stance of his teacher Imam Kawthari, and states that he is just one of his many teachers. It does not mean that he is supposed to agree with everything what Imam Kawthari said. Then he stated that he had one big Shaykh in Halab who was totally in love with Ibn Taymiyyah, and said that "If prophethood was not ended, Ibn Taymiyyah would have been a Nabi" (!)
    [Kalimat fi Kashf Abatil wa Iftira’at by Shaykh ‘Abd al-Fattah Abu Ghuddah]
  6. Haqbahu

    Haqbahu Veteran

    Any response please?
  7. ahlus-sunnah

    ahlus-sunnah Veteran

    Assalamualaykum ,

    Question : Why did Shaykh Zakaria Naqshabandi from Madinah also praise the deobandiyya ??
  8. Little Shaam

    Little Shaam New Member

  9. khadimu786

    khadimu786 Active Member

    But clearly Abu Ghudda, al-Maliki and others all came after Hussam?
  10. Dawud

    Dawud New Member

    I think one should first find out if these Arabic scholars had read:

    Maulvi Ismail Dehelwi’s scholarly treatise Taqviatul Iman
    Mawlawi Qasim Nanawati wrote Tahzeerun Nas
    Mawlawi Khalil Ahmad Ambathwi wrote Brahin-e-Qa’tia
    Malwai Ashraf Ali Thanwai entitled, Hifzul Iman
    Malawai Rashid Ahmad Gangohawi wrote an extensive work entitled, Fatawa-e-Rashidiya


    The opinions and views of the illustrious Ulama of Makkah Mukarramah and Madinah Munawwarah were collected and A’Ia Hazrat Imam Ahmad Reza Brailvi in Arabic compiled a book.

    The historical name of this book is “Husaamul-Haramain Ala Manhar-if-Kufr-e-wal Mayn” (The Slaughter-point of blasphemy and falsehood) (1324 AH).

    On his return to India, A’la Hazrat published it and viz-a-viz it was translated into Urdu by an adept Arabic scholar namely Maulana Hasanain Reza Khan Brailvi (Mercy of Allah be upon him). Both Urdu and Arabic versions were brought out in the market simultaneously.


    What did the Arab Scholars say after reading them?
  11. Haqbahu

    Haqbahu Veteran

    I had several questions about the deobandiyya in mind. Mostly they are about the relationship of the deobandiyya with Ulama of Ahlus-Sunnah outside the Subindian Continent.

    1) Why did Ulama like Imam Zahid Al-Kawthari and Imam Abdul Fattaah Abu Ghuddah praise the deobandiyya so heavily?

    2) Why is it that Shaykh Sayyid Muhammad ibn Alawi al-Makki had Ijazah of several deobandi ulama that goes back to some of the gustakhs whom Alahazrat issued a fatwa against. And this would mean that he doesn't consider him a kafir.

    3) Why is it that Shaykh Mahmud Efendi (who received qasim nanotwi award according to sf forum) has ties with the deobandiyya?

    4) Are there any scholars (that don't have roots from the Indian Subcontinent) in the present time who consider the deobandiyya kafir?

    5) Why is that many works of the deobandiyya are praised in the Arab world and among people from Turkey. Many works are also translated to Turkish (for example Yusuf Kandhalawi´s Hayat Al-Sahabah). I haven't encountered this for our Ulama and their works.


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