The madhabs and Albani - SBC masjid

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The madh'habs and Albani
SBC masjid
Confirmed Attendees: 1
Posted By: Aqdas
Start Date: Jan 15, 2022 07:00 PM
End Date: Jan 15, 2022 09:00 PM
Time Zone: Europe/London +00:00 GMT
The following users have RSVP'd "Yes": 1
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  1. Shadman

    Shadman Active Member

    Thank you Brother @Unbeknown.
    Unbeknown likes this.
  2. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    If you can read Urdu - these two books may help you understand where the problem lies.
    Kashf-e-Ahwaal, Saif-e-Lazawaal

    They are a refutation of a recent book but have a lot of good content on the issue under discussion.
    Shadman likes this.
  3. Shadman

    Shadman Active Member

    This makes logical sense. We take for granted that in our our time we have more access to knowledge. Just step back to pre-World Wide Web eras. In such era a layman would only have access to his local scholars. It's the task of the local scholars to ascribe to a madhab thus, explaining accordingly. The layman shouldn't be burden to know if it is a ruling from the Hanafis, Malikis etc.
  4. Khanah

    Khanah Veteran

    I think aspects of this talk weren't very clear.

    For example, when he begins speaking about the layman has no madhab etc and then talks about go ask the mufti in your locality... Is he claiming that I, as a hanafi, can move to Morocco for a number of years let's say... And when I need a ruling on something, I just go to the local maliki and take his response? As opposed to what I would do which is try to find a local hanafi and if not local, find one internationally etc... He seems to be giving the impression that you just ask anyone regardless. Which is a position I've heard that other scholars hold. Am I misunderstanding?

    Wouldn't this lead to talfiq for the layman which he explains is ijma haram anyway?
    abu Hasan likes this.
  5. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

  6. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    if they haven't received the memo yet, someone should oblige.

    In consideration of their right to equality before law, they must be informed that if they are paying zakah on gold jewelry, they can promptly forego it, simply by intending to follow the shafi'i madhhab, as per which, jewelry purchased for personal use (not for sale or as investment) is exempt from zakah.

    Also, they can stop giving qurbani on eid-ul-adha for each sahib-e-nisaab individual in the family, instead offering just one zabiha per family - as per shafi'i madhhab.

    That's quite some money saved!

    In the long term, the surplus can be invested in funding further research into finding easier rulings across madhhabs.

    In the short term, it can be used for some lavish crabs and octopi grill parties.
    IslamIsTheTruth and abu Hasan like this.
  7. IslamIsTheTruth

    IslamIsTheTruth Well-Known Member

    Quite a few Brummies are sporting short beards, initially they were full length (according to the Hanafi ruling).
  8. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    And when they said that others are incorrect, they didn't mean absolutely and certainly incorrect, but only in the light of available proofs - i.e. - they conceded a possibility that their peers might in fact be correct. That is what we mean when we say "all four are correct".

    But the thick salafi doesn't understand this and says, "truth is one. so how can all four be correct?" Our scholars explain that "One is correct in the Knowledge of Allah ta'ala. But with our limited knowledge we can't say for sure which one is that. We each hold that ours is most likely the correct one and those who disagree with us are most likely incorrect."

    And the khalaf have agreed that truth is now exhausted between these four madhhabs (i.e. one of the four is definitely correct) and it's impermissible to follow any of the old or new schools (if it comes about) until the arrival of the Mahdi - who shall be a Mujtahid mutlaq, and the entire ummah shall unite in following his judgement and there shall not be any madhhab differences thereafter.

    Allah knows best.
    AliNaqshbandi likes this.
  9. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    not just any shaykh.

    Madhhabs began to form when mujtahids disagreed with each other.

    Then those who acquired enough following, whose students spent sufficient efforts to preserve their usul and fataawa and whose rules were dynamic enough to suit the changing social realities, survived and spread, while others lapsed into history when their early students and proponents passed away.

    Allah knows best.
    AliNaqshbandi likes this.
  10. AliNaqshbandi

    AliNaqshbandi New Member

    but the reason for having madhhabs is because the shaykhs disagree and believe the other is incorrect.
  11. AliNaqshbandi

    AliNaqshbandi New Member

    I understand.
  12. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    Ok, perhaps that is salafis.

    But, the point stands: if you allow laity to choose from all four, it definitely opens the door to nafsanic following.
  13. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    really, I have only ever heard that line from salafis.
    I thought sunnis knew that tarjih is not everyone's cup of tea.

    What does this leave us with then?

    On the one hand are those who say people can hop madhhabs because they can tell a strong from a weak position and on the other those who say people can hop because they can't tell positions apart!
  14. Alf

    Alf Active Member

    For a Hanafi, will following the Shafi ruling on beard be similar to following the sea food ruling? Or will that lead to talfiq?
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2022
  15. Alf

    Alf Active Member

    Just in case you missed it, the 4 maddhabs are legitimate schools of fiqh while deobandi is not. Deobandi is a heretical sect, and we don't even seek answers to fiqh questions from them even if they happen to quote hanafi authorities.
  16. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    These types claim this all the time. Meaning, for a lot of them, it is their argument.
  17. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    with due respect sidi, that is not their argument at all.

    their argument is precisely that the layman can never know which is more correct and hence he need not attempt to differentiate between rulings of different madhhab.

    If the claim was that people should be allowed to follow whatever they think is most correct, that would still be tolerable. Because, in that case, the bases of selection would be overwhelming conviction about something/someone having stronger proofs. So the switcher would not merely be following whim or ease.

    The best analogy from their point of view is that of a room with four doors. Whichever door you enter from you will end up in the same place. So then, why take pains to differentiate? What sense does it make to always enter from the same door?

    For a layman (and this includes every non-mujtahid, so even people like Mufti Akmal or Nizamuddin or Alahazrat himself) - can't tell the right hand from the left (metaphorically speaking), so why burden them with choosing between things which, as far as they are concerned, are all equally right?

    So then the only bases for choosing one over the other would be whim/mood/ease (provided the condition of knowing all relevant details is met).
  18. AliNaqshbandi

    AliNaqshbandi New Member

    AbdalQadir said I can't compare Barelwi and Deobandi aqeedah to one school of fiqh vs another, but I was referring to Barelwi and Deobandi fiqh, not aqeedah.
  19. Abdullah Ahmed

    Abdullah Ahmed Veteran


    “Apples are different than oranges, so yes I can compare them to each other”

  20. AliNaqshbandi

    AliNaqshbandi New Member

    Barelwi and Deobandi fiqh is different than their aqeedah, so yes, i can compare them to this issue

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