The Sahaba's contingency argument

Discussion in 'Tafsir' started by sherkhan, Mar 12, 2023.

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  1. sherkhan

    sherkhan Veteran

    This is the very basic argument taught in (shakl awwal) of qiyas iqtirani (coupled syllogism) chapter of mantiq 101.

    al-'aalamu mutagayyirun, wa kullu mutagayyirin haadithun => fal 'aalamu haadithun

    The universe is changing (alterable), and everything which changes (alterable) is contingent (i.e. created) => therefore, the universe is contingent (created)

    and extended further:

    anything contingent is in need of a Creator/Maker; therefore, the universe is in need of a Creator/Maker
  2. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    سبحان الله
    what a sublime argument.

    today we can apply the same reasoning to the standard cosmological model. The universe is not static but expanding - and there is a continuous dynamism in its various constituents. From the massive to the miniscule.

    Indeed, the argument is, not just something cannot come out of nothing, but that change itself cannot come about by itself, without an external, non-native causative factor, having self-agency and intent. Because the changes themselves betray an intentional, directed movement and not merely random fluctuations.
  3. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    most hanbali ulama attribute it to imam ibn al-jawzi - ibn taymiyyah, ibn rajab al-hanbali etc. raise it to ibn al-jawzi in zad al-masir.

    however, an older reference is ibn abi'd dunya in his juz: al-maTar wa'r ra'ad wa'l barq wa'l reeH (#41)
    mawsu'ah ibn abi'd dunya, v5 p553 (other editions may vary)

    AbdalQadir and Unbeknown like this.
  4. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    What about the source you need info on?
  5. Psuedo-Philosopher

    Psuedo-Philosopher "All things must end, as all began"

    The verse is 2:164
  6. Psuedo-Philosopher

    Psuedo-Philosopher "All things must end, as all began"

    As-As-Salāmu Alaykum. I read the following somewhere: "Ibn al-Jawzi (d. 597AH) also narrates a more basic version of the same argument from the Companions. He reports in his commentary on the same verse (Vol. 1, pg. 130): I heard al-Hassan say: the companions of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم used to say: all praise is due to Allah the Forbearing. Had He made creation static without change, then the one who doubts God’s existence would say: “if this creation had a Lord, He would have changed it”. And indeed, Allah Most High changes creation with what you see of His signs…" can someone please enlighten me regarding its source?

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