Ulama associating with Tahir ul

Discussion in 'Tasawwuf / Adab / Akhlaq' started by Aqdas, Jan 16, 2023.

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  1. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    That's what I'm saying. With Allah, he is one or the other. For me, I don't know which he is right now.

    Yes, it was kufr but as we know, there is a difference between kufr and kafir.
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2023
    Ali_Bash likes this.
  2. Khanah

    Khanah Veteran

    I don't understand your first point, to be honest. Either person x is a Muslim or a disbeliever, there is no third option.

    Yes, you can personally be unsure whether someone is Muslim or not. In the case of yazeed, you can say 'hey, reports have reached us suggesting one thing, other reports reached us suggesting another, I'm not able to make a judgement and therefore he may be either Muslim or non Muslim- yet he is most certainly one of the two with no third possibility'.

    If in Tahir's case you negate his Islam, then you have affirmed his being a disbeliever in the same way that if you negate a number being odd, you affirm it being even.

    If in Tahir's case, you don't know for sure whether he committed kufr, then that's where judgement is withheld surely. But in that case, you say 'hey, he may be either Muslim or non Muslim, I don't know which because can the reports be trusted etc etc. But mostly certainly, he is one of the two'. But once you decide he did in fact commit kufr removing him from Islam, then you've made a determination
  3. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    Someone asked me about a clip by a Sunni scholar so I'll make our position clear.

    1. I don't say Tahir ul is a kafir. Yes, he committed kufr and then defended and justified it. I don't consider him a Muslim either. He is like Yazid for me in that I don't say either kafir or Muslim. The reason it's perilous for me to deem him a Muslim is because I know he committed kufr at Wembley and justified it. So if I now say he's Muslim, that's putting my own iman in danger.

    Again, I don't call him a kafir but some ulama have.

    2. Tahir ul is a deviant, not Sunni.

    3. His organisation, Minhaj, follows his aqidah. Therefore, it's a deviant organisation.

    4. Maybe some people who go to Minhaj centres are Sunni. They are heedless and careless Sunnis. They should do their research before going there. Yes, unless they agree with Tahir ul's heresies, they are still Sunni and Sunni scholars should warn them to keep away and pray at Sunni masjids.

    When you go to buy a watermelon, you check three different shops but when it comes to the best of worship, salah, you pray anywhere? That's wrong.

    5. Yes, we should do groundwork just as the perennialist enabler Hamza Yusuf has created Zaytuna and Tahir ul made Minhaj.

    6. Doing groundwork and refuting aren't mutually exclusive. E.g. Abu Hasan has produced amazing literature which even his detractors utilise yet has been the foremost English speaker by a mile to refute heresies. People shouldn't imply that declaring someone a kafir means they can't do groundwork.

    7. Naming names is not essential but at times it is necessary. I myself don't always name names but at other times, I do.
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2023
    Ali_Bash, abu Hasan and Ghulam Ali like this.
  4. shahnawazgm

    shahnawazgm Veteran

    As far as I know he hasn't done tawbah yet. Not to mention him being a rafzi as well (one can see his beliefs in his son, Hasnain aka Nawazuddin, who fortunately has disappeared from this forum)!
  5. AR Ahmed

    AR Ahmed Veteran

    Zahid Husayn Shah still has a charge of kufr on him doesn't he?
  6. Ali_Bash

    Ali_Bash Active Member

    Those who deny the afzaliyat of the shaykhain have fallen in to bid'ah, the problem with this bid'ah is that it loads to the big bid'ah which is they end up disregarding and attacking the opinions of the Sahabah like we have seen with Irfan Shah and Abdul Qadri Shah and their likes. It is best to give Nasihat first to these people and if they stick by their stance it is better to boycott and refute them
  7. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    Tahir ul is majorly deviated but then there's also Zahid Shah and Fazl Ahmad who deny the ijma'a on tafdil al-shaykhayn. So these lot are meeting with many deviants but then turn up to our places too.
  8. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    I was sent these images. What should upright Sunni ulama do with these who go to Tahir ul?


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