What Will Remain When the Trumpet Is Blown?

Discussion in 'Aqidah/Kalam' started by Noori, Oct 25, 2023.

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  1. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    how many times the trumpet will be blown?

    surah al-anaam-73-wa yunfakhu fis sur.png

    first I will quote those who have said that there would be three blows

    Ibn Kathir, in tafsir ibn Kathir, surah al-Ana'am verse 73, narrates a famous and very long hadith from Imam Jarir Tabari’s "Al Tiwalaat". This hadith is called the hadith of the trumpet (hadith as-sur) narrated by Abu Hurayrah raDiyAllahu a'nh. I am only quoting the relevant part here;

    ibn kathir-al anaam-73-1.png

    RasulAllah aliahi afDalus salt wat-tasleem said, “The trumpet will be blown three times: the first blow is the blow of terrifying, the second is the blow of death, and the third blow will be for getting up for the Lord of all the worlds. Allah Ta’al will order Israfil to do the first blow and say blow (o Israfil), so he (Israfil) will blow the (first) blow of terrifying, all living beings of the skies and on earth will be terrified except those whom Allah Ta’ala will pardon (from the blow of terrifying). Allah will order Israfil (to carry on) so he will continue and prolong the blow and will not get tired (by doing this)”

    After narrating this hadith ibn Kathir criticized it. he writes;

    ibn kathir-al anaam-73-2.png

    This is a famous hadith (among people) but very unfamiliar (among hadith scholars). There is evidence for some parts of it in various ahadith, whereas some other parts are unfamiliar (to hadith scholars). this hadith is only narrated by Ismai'l bin Rafay’, a storyteller of Madinah. Hadith scholars have differed about him, some considered him as reliable, and some ranked him as a weak narrator. Some hadith masters have explicitly stated that his hadith is rejected, such as Ahmed bin Hanbal, Abi Hatim al Razi, and A'mr bin Ali al Flas. Some of them said that his hadith is discarded, and ibn A'diy said that there are issues in all of his narrations except that he (ibn A'diy) writes his narrations among the weak narrators.

    I say: there is disagreement about the chain of narrators of this hadith in many ways, and I have written a separate treatise on it, whereas the manner in which it is narrated is very unfamiliar. It is said that he compiled it from many other narrations, and made it (look like) a continuous hadith, therefore it was rejected due to this reason. I (ibn Kathir) heard my teacher al-Hafiz Abu al Hajjaj al Mizzi saying that he (al Mizzi) has seen the musannaf of Walid bin Muslim in which he has compiled all the evidence for some of the words of this hadith, and Allah knows the best.

    he said similarly in the sharh of surah al-Namal, verse 87;

    al namal-87.png

    ibn kathir-an namal-87-yum yunfkhu fis suri fafazia.png

    this is the blow of terrifying, after it there will be the blow of al-saa'q, which is death, then after it, there will be the the blow for standing up for the Lord of all the worlds, and it is the resurrection of all the creation from their graves.
  2. Ahlesaabiqoon

    Ahlesaabiqoon Active Member

  3. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    there is no clear and indisputable evidence from Quran and hadith (sarih nass) on the details of the impact of the trumpet; therefore, due to different exegeses of the verses of the Quran and ahadith concerning the trumpet and annihilation of the creation ulama have different opinions on the following issues;
    1. how many blows of the trumpet there will be, two, three, or four of it?
    2. will all the creation only die and be ruined and tattered or will they be obliterated (ma'dum) entirely, and only the Creator Allah al-H'ay al-Baqi will remain (baqi) such that nothing exists with Him just like He existed and nothing existed with Him from His creation?
    3. will all the creations die at once when the trumpet is blown the first time or are some of the creations precluded?
    4. will terrifying:al-faziy' (الفزع) be after the first blow of the trumpet or after the blow of the resurrection (نفخ البعث)
    5. will the same persons (zawaat: ذوات) of the creations be resurrected from nothingness, or they will have new bodies?
    I will try to produce and translate relevant quotes pertaining to different views on the above inshaAllah.
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  4. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    yes, there are several differences that i will try to quote and translate later inshaAllah.

    the summary given in BeS is not contradictory to what i have quoted from ibn muy'in an nasafi and suyuti because it is about the annihilation of the creation in the universe, whereas jannah and jahannam are beyond this universe and the 12 angles mentioned in suyuti's quote will die after the first blow.

    from the statement of ibn muyin's an nasafi, and suyuti, and other ulama that i will quote later inshaAllah, it is clear that the throne, chair, pen, tablet, heaven, and hell with their people created in them, and souls will not perish, therefore fana would mean the death of all creation except those excluded.

    here is another quote from suyuti's al budoor just after a few pages of the quote i posted previously;

    al budoor-90.png

    every creation will taste death, whether they become nonexistent (ma'dum) is a moot point because there are no reports about what will happen between the two blows of the trumpet except the death of some angles.

    only the Creator Allah ta'ala cannot be ma'adum; if, according to other opinions, the entire creation becomes ma'dum, such that they are not only dead but their essence (zaat) also does not exist then it is also our aqidah that Alah Ta'ala can/will create the exact same people as He created them the first time, and their souls will be returned to the same bodies they were in this world.

    see footnote 2 on page 130 (pdf 236) v1 of BeS, dawat e islami ed.

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 13, 2023
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  5. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    Brother are there differences of opinion on the details given in Bahare Shariat?

  6. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    the muhaqqiq of al-budoor, abu abdullah muhammad hasan al shafiy', added a footnote to summarize different opinions about those who will be exempted from the first blow of the trumpet;

    al budoor footnote-p82.png

    below is a draft translation, will review and fix it later.

    in short, there are 10 different opinions on this matter (about the first blow of the trumpet and those affected by it)

    1-all the creation will be dead in the sense that they will not have any awareness therefore they will not fall unconscious, this is the opinion that the author of al mafham is inclined to which imam jalaluddin suyuti rahimahullah mentioned and rejected in the footnote.

    2- those excluded from al sai'q (death or unconsciousness) (on the first blow of the trumpet) are martyrs

    3- They are prophets alihim afDalus salat wat-tasleem. this is the opinion of bayhaqi in the explanation of hadith in which he suggested that Musa alaihi afDalus salat wat-tasleem will be among those who will be exempted by Allah Ta'ala, and he said that the reason in my view is that they are alive with their Lord like martyrs; therefore, when the trumpet will be blown for the first time they will become unconscious and this will not be death in all aspects except that it would be only the absence of sensibility.

    4-yahya bin salam said in his tafsir that what reached me is that jibrail, mikail, israfil, and malik al maut will remain at the end (of creation), then (the first) three of them will die. Allah Ta'ala will say, "die", to malik al maut, and he will die (too).

    ibn hajr said: I commented-similar to this is reported by bayhaqi and ibn marduwayh from anas with a continuous chain with these words-"so the three exempted by Allah Ta'ala are three-jibrail, mikail, and malik al maut", and it is a week report.

    there is another chain of this hadith through anas which is weak as well reported by tabari and marduwayh, which has a complete context.

    tabari reported from ismail al-saddi with a sound chain, and ismail bin abi ziyad al-shami reported it from ibn abbas with a continuous chain in his tafsir like yahya bin salam reported, and tabari narrated similarly to this from saeed bin al musayyib and added that the bearers of the throne are not among those exempted because they are above the skies.

    5-what is explained (additionally) in 4 can be counted as the fifth opinion (probably the researcher is hinting?)

    6- they are the four angles mentioned, and the bearers of the throne, it is part of a long hadith which is called hadith al-sur narrated by abu hurayrah raDiAllahu anh

    7- only Musa alaihi afDalus salat wat-talseem will be exempted from al-sai'q, it is reported by tabari with a weak chain from anas and qatadah, and tha'labi reported it from jabir

    8-the lads and hur that are in the paradise

    9-those mentioned in 8th and the superintends of heaven and hell, and snakes and scorpions in the hell. tha'labi reported these two from dah'ak bin mazah'im.

    in the opening of the footnote, the researcher said that there are 10 opinions on this issue but then he only listed 9 opinions, and 5th opinion is also not stated clearly.
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2023
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  7. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    imam jalaluddin suyuti writes in al budoor as safirah fi ahwal al aakhirah;
    budoor as safirah-p81.png

    budoor as safirah-p82.png

    first he mentions several ahadith in the preceding section about the trumpet and the happenings afterward, the summary of which follows;

    - a dispute happened between a jew and a man from ansaar in a market of madinah about who is superior to all mankind, this issue reached rasul Allah alaihi afDalus salat wat tasleem, and he recited verse 68 of al zumar;

    And the Trumpet will be blown, so everyone in the heavens and everyone on the earth will fall unconscious, except whomever Allah wills; it will then be blown again, and thereupon they will get up staring! (al zumar:68)

    then he alaihi adDalus salat wat tasleem said that I will be the first (after the second blow of the trumpet) to get up, then all of a sudden I will find Musa (alaihi afDalus salat wat tasleem) holding one of the legs of the throne. I do not know if he got up before me or if he is among those whom Allah Ta'ala exempted (from the first blow of the trumpet).

    - Rasul Allah alaihi afDalus salat wat-tasleem asked jibrail about those whom Allah will save from al sai'q (death or unconsciousness) upon the first blow. he alaihis salam replied that they are martyrs with their swords fastened around the throne ( i.e. the martyrs will not become faint when the trumpet is blown for the first time)

    - the companions asked about those excluded in the verse, rasul Allah alaihi afDalus salat wat tasleem answered that they are jibrail, mikail, malik al maut, israfil, and the bearers of the throne. after all the creation (on the earth and in the skies) have died, these angles will also die one by one (between the two blows of the trumpet, but were saved from death or unconsciousness on the first blow of the trumpet)

    - bayhaqi reported from zaid bin aslam that he said that those whom Allah Ta'ala excluded are twelve, jibrail, mikail, israfil, malik al maut and eight bearers of the throne.

    then, after presenting the ahadith, which i summarised above in my own words, imam jalaluddin suyuti added his remarks given in the two images above, the translation of which follows;
    there is no contradiction in these narrations that those excluded are martyrs or some of the angels because they can be reconciled such that they are all excluded (from al sai'q). it is valid to exclude martyrs because they are alive with their Lord and are given sustenance.

    some of them said that that those excluded (in the verse) are the beautiful women (al hur), the lads (of paradise), the keepers of heaven and hell, and whatever is in it (i.e. hell) from the snakes and scorpions. and al hulaimy said that the exclusion of other than martyrs is a weak opinion because the exclusion in the verse is applied to the dwellers on earth and in the skies. whereas the bearers of the throne and some angles, mentioned by some scholars, are not among the residents of the skies and earth because the throne and its bearers are above the skies, and jibrail and the other three angles are around the throne, and heaven and hell with their people are two (other) worlds, both of them created for eternal life, therefore they are not included in those things created for annihilation, hence the verse does not include their people. also, the heavens are above the skies and below the throne therefore the verse does not apply to them.

    it is not objectionable that the beautiful women (al hur), lads (of paradise), and its superintendents will not die because it is (i.e. jannah) is an abode of eternal life, whoever enters it will never die, even though they are susceptible to death, therefore those who are created in it are more deserving that they should never die. also, because death is a coercion upon those subjected to obligations, and it (i.e. death) is their transfer from one abode to another, whereas there is no obligation upon the people of heaven, hence they are not burdened with death.

    as for the saying of Allah Ta'ala "all things are destructible except His Entity", the meaning of it is "to be susceptible to death", and every creation is liable to die even if it did not, unlike the Sempiternal the Eternal. it is supported by the fact that there is no report that the throne will perish, therefore heaven should also be included in it (which will not perish when the trumpet is blown).

    and the author of "al-fahm" said: it is established that al sai'q is more common than death, it is death for those who have not died, and fainting for those who have died (before). when the trumpet is blown for the second time those who died will become alive, and those who were faint will recover. this fainting is for the prophets other than Musa alaihi afDalus salat wat-tasleem because there is no certainty about him, and if it (the unconsciousness) did not happen to him it will be considered due to his (alaihi afDalus salat wat-tasleem) fainting on the mountain of Tur. it is a great virtue for him but it does not require his superiority over our prophet alaihi afDalus salat wat-tasleem because a particular virtue does not necessitate superiority in all aspects.

    bayhaqi said: Allah has returned the souls of the prophets to their bodies after their demise, therefore they are alive with their Lord like martyrs are alive. when the trumpet is blown they will be among those who will become faint, and this will not be death in all its meaning except that they will lose their consciousness. if Musa alaihi afDalus salat wat-tasleem is among those whom Allah exempted then he will not lose his consciousness in that state and he will be pardoned due to the fainting on the day of Tur.

    i say (suyuti) that from this it becomes clear that those excluded in the verse are the aforementioned angles when al sai'q means death in the verse, and if sai'q means fainting then it is Musa alaihi afDalus salat wat-tasleem who is excluded in the verse. and both meanings can be intended together, and both the exceptions will apply (i.e. Musa alaihis salam and the four angles). the exception from the unconsciousness of martyrs is not correct because if it will happen to the prophets and even to the master of all prophets alihim afDalus salat wat-tasleem then it more appropriately applies to martyrs.

    then imam suyuti mentioned the statement of imam maymun bin muhammad an nasafi from bahr al kalam that i translated above.
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2023
  8. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    Allah Subhanu wa Ta'ala mentions in His kalam al qadim that when the trumpet is blown for the first time some of His creation will be saved from it whoever He wills.

    al naml-87.png
    And the Day when the Trumpet is blown – so all those who are in the heavens and the earth will be terrified, except whomever Allah wills; and everyone has come to Him, in submission (al naml:87)

    al zumar-68.png
    And the Trumpet will be blown, so everyone in the heavens and everyone on the earth will fall unconscious, except whomever Allah wills; it will then be blown again, and thereupon they will get up staring! (al zumar:68)

    imam maymun bin muhammad an nasafi writes in his bahr al kalam in the third debate about the things that will not become nonexistent when the trumpet is blown;
    bahr al kalam-nasafi.png

    muta'zilah said that when Allah Ta'la commands to blow the trumpet for the first time, the skies and earth, heaven and hell, and all souls will become nonexistent, and then afterward Allah Ta'ala will create them again. They prove it using the verse "He only is the First and He only the Last".

    it is because Allah was alone in eternity (azal) and nothing from His creation existed with Him; similarly, it is necessary that only He should remain in the hereafter such that nothing remains with Him so that this name (al aakhir) is attributed to Him only.

    and ahlussunah wal jama'ah say that heaven and hell are everlasting dwellings, and they are (created) for reward and punishment, therefore they will not vanish.

    and the proof of it is the verse;

    And the Day when the Trumpet is blown – so all those who are in the heavens and the earth will be terrified, except whomever Allah wills; and everyone has come to Him, in submission (al naml:87)

    i,e. (except whomever Allah wills) means the heaven and hell and their dwellers from the angels of punishment and the beautiful women (hur).

    and ahlussunah wal jama'ah has said that seven things will not perish; the throne, the chair, the pen, heaven, hell, and their dwellers, and souls.

    (bahr al kalam, p219)
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  9. Ahlesaabiqoon

    Ahlesaabiqoon Active Member

    if anyone could give a reply to this inshā'Allāh. Many Muslims are wondering.
  10. Ahlesaabiqoon

    Ahlesaabiqoon Active Member

    Will Jannah (and the Hūr within them) and Jahannam remain when the Trumpet is blown? What about the souls of the Barzakh, the 'Arsh&Kursī, etc...?

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