Why is it considered amazing if people are refuted from their own books?

Discussion in 'Aqidah/Kalam' started by Syed Ahmed Uwaisi, Sep 29, 2014.

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  1. Syed Ahmed Uwaisi

    Syed Ahmed Uwaisi Active Member

    "a virtue is truly one if even your enemy acknowledges it"

    Thanks.

    If you have a source for that, could you put it in the thread called a 'Wee Project', where im collecting quotes by Sunni scholars.
     
  2. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    general.

    it means, a virtue is truly one if even your enemy acknowledges it. I cited this because it relates to our differences with wahabis and why we cite their books. as I said earlier:

     
  3. Syed Ahmed Uwaisi

    Syed Ahmed Uwaisi Active Member

    I appreciate the response, i see the scientific necessity of using devbandit books or others books for the purpose of 'Ultimate Istidlal Finishing Moves', indeed they are necessary, I also understood that most people are investigating these things from an ilmi perspective (scientific) and not hali (spiritual/psychological) point of view, which in itself is a demonstration to outsiders of how followers of the prophetic way are not zealots or bigots, using emotional basis for beliefs and practices, but do so from istidlali knoweldge.

    My reflection was actually more a casual observation, based on natural reaction to the aberrance of people from deviant sects from a psychological persepctive, and also from the perspective of a layman who is not versed in the skills of debate, i.e. that he may recognise the illness present in the appearance of the hypocrite, i.e. in the sense of the hadith firasatul mumin, and through that way, he may recognise their deception, also citing here the khawarij prophecies, describing their dress, marks on their forehead, long prostrations, etc, also i would cite the hadith on how dajjal would be recognised by believers despite the fact they could not read, yet they will see the Arabic root letters K-F-R written on his forehead, etc etc etc.

    In summary, a Sunni, to properly communicate himself should a) first negate the necessity of refuting the deviant scientifically due to his position being inherently wrong from a cognitive sense, and then b) proceed to narrate the appropriate evidences so that the message is more clearly emphasised, despite the acknowledgement from both sides that one is on truth and the other is on falsehood, and the one on falsehood already knows he is wrong internally.

    1, what is the meaning of: al-faDlu ma shahidat bihi'l a'ada, and is it from fiqh or general philosophy?

    2, what is the meaning of muddayi lakh pe bhari hai gawahi teri and where is it from?
     
  4. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    muddayi lakh pe bhari hai gawahi teri
     
  5. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    it's not amazing but al-faDlu ma shahidat bihi'l a'ada.

    a prime example is allama arshad ul qadri's zalzalah in which he has proven all of our beliefs such as tasarruf and ilm e ghayb from devbandi books. this isn't anything amazing but a devbandi is more likely to accept proofs if it comes from their own books. this is why the editor of tajalli, aamir uthmani, had to admit that after reading zalzalah, if devbandis still want to hold onto their beliefs; then they'll have to burn the books of their elders because they contain beliefs contrary.

    we can present the names of scores of scholars who supported mawlid but the wahabi will ignore it. but, if we present ibn Taymiyyah then the same wahabi may be forced to ponder.

    ---
    as for their books containing contradictions, as alahazrat says in subHan al-subbuH: 'liars have a bad memory.'

    ---
    but what if per chance, a heretic is well mannered and not outwardly wretched? e.g. the tablighis are outwardly very polite so that they can trick innocent sunnis but inwardly, they are staunch wahabis.

    hence, it is better to just show their heresy and contradictions from their books as 'personal wretchedness' is relative [a devbandi won't see another devbandi as a wretch] but written evidence cannot be declined.
     
  6. Syed Ahmed Uwaisi

    Syed Ahmed Uwaisi Active Member

    It should be very normal for an educated individual to see heretical Islamic sects refuted "from their own books", due to the fact that the essence of their weird thinking is written in those books, so why do people think it is strange, rather, it is the logical manner to go about indicating their illnesses.

    Even beyond this, reading their books should not indicate their illness, but their general wretchedness that you can observe in their character, the way they talk, and their attitude towards life, which is immersed in Negaholism.
     

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