Why "Islamic" forums are a complete waste of valuable time. And how everyone's full of it

Discussion in 'Smalltalk' started by Yasser Rashid, Sep 17, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Draft saved Draft deleted
  1. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    let us burn the road to make one driver happy.
    Ghulam Ali, AbdalQadir and Aqdas like this.
  2. Yasser Rashid

    Yasser Rashid Active Member

    I hope your road analogy isn't making this forum sound like the road in the example you've provided . Because if that's the case it's clear example of qiyas ma'al fariq. Your analogy is mistaken.

    Because I'm like another driver who's catching people jay walking to such an extent that its causing traffic on the road so I'm reporting them jaywalkers to the police driving on the same road (you and aqdas).

    Your like the chief constable who's getting annoyed with me reporting them jaywalkers because:

    a) you haven't got much of a chief role and it's a case simpy out your jurisdiction (which I doubt) or

    b) you enjoy others blazing each other to an extent

    c) you just can't be bothered

    d) too much responsibility for 1 officer (you/aqdas) in which case you may need to get some more moderators on board

    I choose option (d) in this regard because that guy Barry just recently today posted that absurd question.

    But the reason I choose other options is because the moderator (either you/aqdas) does at times post directly after and in the same thread as those charlatans. In such a case other options maybe chosen also.
    Moriarty likes this.
  3. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    i don't know about the place you live, but everywhere i have driven a car, i have been threatened by jaywalkers. you know you are planning to to enter a main road and watching the other side for the flow, so you can enter; but split-second, second-check makes you jam your brakes as a jaywalker found the best place to cross the road - in front of your car. you are double lucky if you didn't get hit in the back and didn't hit the pedestrian (pun intended). this happens in the oddest places, and people seem to think that the guy in the car is super-alert pilot who has 360 eyes around him and who can precisely control everything.

    now there are a few options:

    1. don't let it bother you; hit your brakes hard. say alHamdulillah, i didn't go to jail. alHamdulillah, i don't have a dead or handicapped fool* on my conscience. alHamdulillah, nobody was close behind to hit me.

    2. hit the pedestrian, the sad bloke deserves it.

    3. refuse to drive a car and ride with a friend instead (if you are a sadist, it is your friend who goes to jail not you) but the annoyance remains.

    4. honk like crazy whenever you are crossed by a suicidal pedestrian.

    5. gather like minded drivers and hold a demonstration: "there ought to be a law against jaywalkers". (psst. there is but WHO will enforce it? unless you have a policeman with every pedestrian or have a radio-collar on every pedestrian which communicates to a number of stations that relay it to the central site; "beep beep citizen 56565677 has crossed the road". (which leads to many philosophical meanderings like why did the pedestrian cross the road. but that is for another thread.)

    6. build fences on sidewalks, road separators to stop jaywalkers from crossing the road.

    7. don't let it bother you. people are like that. teach yourself to ignore them and focus (and remember) where you wanted to go, and let not the jaywalker spoil your mood.


    * please note that the context is specifically of fools who don't follow road rules and get hit or die or are handicapped. i have seen some serious fools who cross the road when the oncoming traffic is driving at 100-120kmph. sometimes running across 4-tracks! nothing against disabled people or ordinary people who are struck by speeding idiots who drive recklessly without worrying about other people. nevertheless, my sympathy for all and a public service message: please drive carefully in residential areas. in the past 10 years, i have missed death by a whisker, more than once. once i was crossing the road on a zebra crossing (a busy junction) when the light was green for pedestrians to cross - some idiot in a 4x4 jumped the redlight and almost ran into me, i luckily saw him in time and i ran for my dear life (alHamdulillah). once again, i was just crossing a side street (where speed is 40kmph) and a super-idiot appeared in no time driving something like 100kmph, i stepped back as he whizzed in front of me. (alHamdulillah).
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2014
    Aqdas likes this.
  4. Yasser Rashid

    Yasser Rashid Active Member

  5. Yasser Rashid

    Yasser Rashid Active Member

    A few interesting points being made by brothers:

    Brother wadood i appreciate your respect for me, but im telling you sincerely from my heart, i am not a shaykh or even someone near the rank of a proper talib al 'ilm. I mean that.
    Having said that, it is a very motivating fact indeed the way you perceive me to be something of that kind. It makes me realize, for one, why and how i must most definitely get offline and start real work which will inevitably aid me in achieving what some people may perceive me to be at times, when in reality i know im far far away from such ranks.
    Thanks for your support. May Allah increase you also!

    Im not denying the arduous task of running the show here. But a few precautions can be implemented. Such as, for example, deleting posts, or even banning, those who start to offend even ahl al bid'ah in a childish manner. And also warning the likes of ghulam and abdul qadir about being diseased for the most part. Otherwise banning them altogether.

    Otherwise this will not be an academic forum. It will be a sweat release/punch bag/mid life crisis/family problems/stressed/depressed/had enough of life/spare time on my hands/etc etc release forum for many.

    Also, on an academic forum of general standards nicks and fake names ought to be avoided also. And usually on such forums when people do come on with nicks they refrain from immature attitude and nafsi beahviour, moslty.

    And thats kuffar im speaking about!!

    So whats the benchmark for islamic forums? Higher, far more better standards of course. That means if you do come on with a fake name at least maintain your integrity that you would otherwise uphold in a general real life conversation; otherwise come on with your real name and carry on, by all means, attitude of a 4 year old.

    would that be implemented by sincere, true to their word, real searchers of truth, out in the wild who have no access to 'ulama?

    yes, i suppose.

    But is that the case presently? obviously not.

    I agree that not everyone has it as comfortable as people elsewhere in terms of knowledge and finding things out. But again, the solution to that is by allowing a certain number of posters and people by capping immature people who mess the flow up.

    To increase the standards and level of acceptance it maybe a a viable option to motivate students of shari'ah to post on here with their true identities and real life views providing sources from shariah and mainly discussing utmost substance based subjects like tafsir and usul hadith and usul al fiqh.
    Also, alongside, allowing curious people to ask with a serious passion to learn.

    4) as for threads on refutation, someone learned, like abu hassan, ought to clinically end the discussion with a thorough unanswerable final post dealing with all aspects of the subject and thereby not allow further discussion, unless it it a really important needed post thereafter. Take tawassul for eg, which may have 100 posts regarding it. The 101th one should close the matter for once. All irrelevant and repetitive posts should be deleted.

    But at the same time double standards must be avoided.

    5) therefore, overall, getting rid of this medium altogether, i agree, will be a bad idea, otherwise the likes of me wouldnt be here right now. But the point is aspects must be heavily edited and revamped. Immature people kicked of. And murtadds kicked of also. Due to repeatedly posing new questions yet not providing answers for previous questions. Basically guys who beat around the bush also must be warned and eventually banned.
    Pseudonyms only help if the person is not immature. Mostly they are. So that point doesnt stand.
    Because i wouldnt criticize pseudonyms if people had manners at least. Hence why abu hassan proceeds to say: "as for myself being anonymous: you might not find anything additional even if you know my real name".
    abu Hasan and Wadood like this.
  6. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    should be, yes. but we're not enforcers. the point of the forum is not to force people to align with shariah, we can't do that. the point is to raise awareness - thereafter, tawfiq is from Allah.

    also, did you ponder: we may not have stopped the impermissible qawwali on ummah channel but maybe we have stopped other people from indulging?

    you can already see posts by wadood and unbeknown above that if it weren't for sunniport, they might have been lost. me 3.

    you said that the sh yaqubi thread didn't change people on the ground. yes, it did. I was a fan of the shaykh but now I am cautious to say the least as his speeches in which he has made strange comments are there for everybody to listen to. ok, it didn't change everyone (refer to moriarty's cult thread as to why that is) but at least it safeguards the rest of us.
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2014
  7. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    I'm not talking about other forums, only sunniport. some of the most important works of abu Hasan, I think, came about as a result of the discussion here. I'm not sure if the formidable work, The Killer Mistake, would have been written if there wasn't a rich discussion right here on sunniport. I can't stress the importance of this work and brothers have said to me that hereon, if any devbandi argues with us, we will simply hand him TKM.

    over the years, so many heretics such as devbandis and shia came here seeking to defeat sunnis but by the grace of Allah, they were all silenced. sunniport for me is a safehaven about which young sunnis can rest assured that we have a resource online too which will act as a fortress against heresy whilst promoting the traditional sunni aqida (unfortunately, even the word 'traditional' has been hijacked by the sulH kullis).

    yes, we have ulama but we also need something online. but, as aH said, why not merge the two and get ulama to join in at sunniport...

    as unbeknown said, it's just an amalgamation of constituent parts. so, if it's not such a massive resource, why not help make it one?
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2014
    Brother Barry and Haqbahu like this.
  8. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    @all SP members who are less knowledgeable like myself.

    Consider SP to be a multilevel display like this one.

    The levels are assigned for various precious objects: topmost for diamonds, followed by gold nuggets, silver ringlets, emeralds, rubies and so forth. The last is simply for flowers. If everyone follows the rules, the display would evoke wonder and appreciation and benefit all. But when people who have nothing to add except pebbles and bird droppings, start exerting themselves just because the display is put up for public contribution it begins to lose its appeal and usefulness. Caretakers see to it that such people are denied access and their 'contributions' are removed but sometimes they go unnoticed. Overtime these accumulate under layers of valid contributions and the display then begins to reek of them and puts new comers off - the display has lost it's original pristineness.

    I therefore urge all fellow members to exercise restraint and follow the rules and regulations suggested here 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 and else where so that we keep SP a sparkling beauty for all to behold.

    I am not trying to be condescending- I am guilty of this indiscretion myself. I apologize for that and resolve to act more responsibly henceforth. I also request members who find that I am not walking the talk to please intimate me via pm or in the respective thread and I'll request the mods to remove my contribution. This is a personal choice and I am certainly not calling for mods to become policemen especially as sidi aH has made it clear that he sees leniency as more a virtue than a vice. I personally don't want to make anymore posts that tarnish the image of SP.

  9. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    my post on whether SP should continue: here.

    we have done that too and tried to force an opponent to stick to the point that he himself raised but sensing that he was cornered, jumped to another. that is a common tactic i have observed on forums.

    we have been and WILL be lenient, until things reach a point when everybody is weary of it after going around in circles, a few times.

    i cannot claim huge and rich experience, but whatever little i have interacting with brothers online or in person; or observed people in the gatherings of ulama, i have always felt that people are hesitant to ask - and they fear that they will be slammed down. some people rummage islamic books if they cannot find an answer, but most of us simply live with it, ignoring doubts gnawing in their mind. some people cannot ignore those doubts and take to resolving it themselves and end up agreeing with wahabis or atheists or zanadiqah, whatever. forums can help them to ask such questions and most likely, someone will help either with an answer or direct them to a book or talk to find an answer. or at least, the person won't find himself/herself as weird.

    some people, ask questions such as: "why should homosexuality be sin if a person is born that way..." etc. he is not looking for answers, but only trying to corner us, because he comes with a preconceived notion that "mulla is backward", all of you are stuck in the 12th century etc and everything that you may know about science, he knows because he is a "scientist". half the time, he doesn't realise that his argument is seriously flawed, due to his super self-confidence "what do the mullas know about logic and philosophy compared to me, a scientist".

    so yes, we don't have patience or time to satisfy idle curiosities; but if the same question question is asked by a genuine seeker, we can explore answers. now, you may say that i am "judging" that person for not being sincere seeker. but not so, because, he comes with the notion that we are wrong - his questions are to prove his point that we are backward - because he trails his questions with what he supposes will be an answer: "you will tell me that God said it. so do it." and has the response ready too: "i can't buy that".

    what is the point of talking to an atheist about shari'ah law or the nuances of whether something is makruh or haram? if one does not recognise that we are slaves of Allah ta'ala and are bound by His command, there is no point arguing about makruh and haram.

    Allah ta'ala knows best.
  10. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    sorry, sidi aH posted while I was writing. I see he has made all the points and more an better than I have.
  11. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    this is the reason that though I had been a member and avid reader of the marifah forums I decided to migrate here and make it my primary online haunt. I cannot highlight enough the truth in everyone of the above statements.

    some people seem to have been let down because they had too high an expectation from a web resource. I do not think this forum was intended to be used as a tool for social change or reform. It was, if I have read sidi aN correctly, intended to be used as a nudge in the right direction, a sign-post if you will, to point out the right way to those who, for various reasons, are not in touch with the ulema.

    Speaking for myself, I never made a post in order to announce to the world some monumental truth that I alone have realized and which the world could not afford to dispense with - no such illusions of grandeur were ever my motivations. Sometimes it was merely to seek the answers to questions that were bugging me and sometimes to discuss some anomaly that definitely led me to suu-az-zann and which I either hoped to confirm or get the better of. And sometimes the following:

    A man once made his way to a venue where a renowned sufi was to deliver a sermon. Upon reaching the place he found that the event had concluded and everyone had dispersed except an elderly man who sat alone on the ground. The man approached him and said, "Kind sir, wasn't Sufi so-and-so to deliver a sermon here?". "Young man", said the elder, "I am the speaker you have come to listen to but my sermon concluded long ago. Yet, if you wish I will deliver it again for your sake". The man was taken aback and said, "Why would a great sufi such as yourself deliver a sermon for one lowly man like me?". "Isn't He whom I wish to please also One?"

    the moral being, don't count how many people you are able to benefit with your abilities. I know SP cannot bring a global revolution but it has certainly brought a revolution in my life and the lives of those close to me. Who knows how many other silent spectators have likewise benefited from this forum.

    I had made some suggestions earlier.

    Each person has a disposition and circumstances with which he has to manage. Only books, a forum, a website, a magazine etc. To each his own.

    You should still have forced members into a tolerable groove. Look at marifah: Hamoudeh deleted an entire thread just because one member was abusing the deobandits. In one thread he refused to allow brother sunnistudent to post until he accepted to reply to those points which hamoudeh thought were important. This is clear high handedness.

    Nevertheless, admins here could still have forced a decorum. Whatever fell beyond some tolerable boundaries of 'academic', 'useful' and 'harmless/innocent' should have been censored, IMHO.

    It's not just the sunnis who got carried away due to the admins' leniency but even the pot-stirrers and deobandits have taken undue advantage. What's the use of replying academically to a post that is anything but? Delete it and let people deal with it. After some tries everyone who wished to use the forum would've fallen in line.

    The following is from TKM:

    Qāđī Íyāđ has said:
    If the person who uttered [such blasphemies] is a person known to be a scholar or a teacher, [a shaykh or a muftī,] or a ĥadīth scholar and narrator, or a person in authority or known to be a reliable witness or a well-known jurist – then it is obligatory for whosoever hears [such a thing from him] to expose him and make the public aware of what has been heard from him – and to make people dislike such a person, to bear witness against such a person and what he has said; it is obligatory for scholars and leaders in the Muslim community to repudiate such a person and clearly communicate the kufr of this person and the monstrosity of his ugly speech so that Muslims are safeguarded from the evil of such a person – and the right of the Leader of Messengers (peace be upon him) is well established. Similarly, if that person [who has uttered a blasphemy] is a preacher or a schoolmaster; if this be the things in his heart, then how can he be trusted to teach the love and reverence of RasūlAllāh(peace be upon him) to those in his care or his audience? It is definitely obligatory to publicise the blasphemies of such people – for the right of the Prophet (peace be upon him) and the right of the Sharīáh.

    Refutations and 'exposes' have benefits - if nothing else, then atleast we realize what is not right. I think you will agree that in these days deviancy is exported/imported globally and with remarkable speed. So by refuting some American deviant it's not just him but a plethora of similar frauds and dubious individuals that you put up a fight against. India has it's own HYs and TuQs, only they are know to those who are around them.

    But I agree that it should be academic. It should be in the tone: "This is fact and this is false/untrue/fiction. The ruling of the shariah regarding such an individual is xyz. But we will not label any specific person. Let the readers and muftis decide about it."

    Brother AQ makes excellent points and exposes and he could drill sense into more people if he could modify his style and lingo, IMHO.

    @Yasser Rashid : I know that compared to a class or direct learning from a scholar, forums provide merely tit-bits. But we are grateful for even the crumbs of 'ilm that are thrown our way. Even if we have to extract them from seemingly pointless rants. Their cumulative effect is substantial.

    Allah('azzawajal) knows best.

    Ghulam Ali and abu nibras like this.
  12. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    since it appears it is own-up time for everyone, we will rename this thread as "my story.."

    just kidding.

    when we are young, we tend to be too idealistic and expect others to accept mistakes when they see it. "if i can own up, why can't they?" but as we grow older, we learn that it takes a great deal of sincerity and honesty towards one's own self, to be able to acknowledge one's mistakes and say, "hey yes. he/she is right, i should change myself."

    unfortunately, most of us - except a lucky few - lose that zeal of righteousness directed inward, as we grow older. may Allah ta'ala forgive us. one of the reason why most adults cannot learn a language, when kids do it so well is because of inhibition. kids are not worried about making mistakes or worry about whether others will laugh if they say it; we adults are afraid and we remain on safe shores without learning to speak another language properly (or as it is spoken by educated native speakers).

    my point is that we build imaginary fences around us; we take criticism as personal attacks and look for motives when someone tries to correct us. we start with the premise that "i am right" instead of "i think i am right, but i could be wrong" and for many it becomes a matter of prestige, defending one's own honour, in spite of glaring evidence that they are wrong. there are some who acknowledge internally that they are wrong, but continue to defend what they too know is wrong; and there are some who cannot see that they are wrong and defend vigorously, what they think is their right to defend.

    my apologies for the sermon.

    as we grow older, we learn that it is not easy to bring a change. people are not switches that you can flip on or off; some take time, some never bother - we can only hope and pray that they see the truth.

    if you hope to be a guide - that is to help people see the right way - you have to be patient and start with the assumption that nobody might listen, but still, it is my duty to tell them. if you are very lucky - and aided by Divine Light and inspiration, if you are sincere and truthful, (many other reasons some beyond your own control), you may get a huge following of people who become sincerely good.

    you cannot go out to preach with the condition that: "if no one listens to me, i am coming back home to my books. if they are so intent on going to hell, let them".

    aN has already said it. i have many times deleted AQ's posts and ghulam's too when i was looking. and as aN pointed out, in many cases, i don't even read it if it is a dead horse that is being flogged yet once again. AQ has been warned, both publicly and privately - and he has accepted it in the spirit of following the rules of the forum. personally, i think AQ has an intelligent argument, if he can do away with his acrid remarks.

    people report though. someone reported about a brother posting his picture on the avatar; we removed it and informed the brother, who didn't know the rules. NJ's posts had to be deleted as he was openly advocating homosexuality etc. which is a tad too much for tolerance of this board. there were complaints and we had reached the limit. if NJ thinks that i deleted and banned him out of personal grudge or that i was vindictive or that unable to answer his objections, i feared that my reputation was at stake, <<shrugs>> can't help it. i couldn't do it the other way, continue to entertain him to prove my own "fairness" or "ability to face hard questions" or whatever romantic ideals people harbour.
    will they say aH is a coward, incapable of answering an atheist, so much engrossed in his own self, whatever? ok. lets move on.

    however, open cursing and using swear words has been off-limits to everyone. i have edited four-letter words in NJ's posts, as well as others - where i see them. sometimes, when people send la'anat on others by name, i would like to edit it, but in cases where i was involved in the debate myself, i didn't want to edit their posts to give them the feeling that i had an unfair advantage (which i do :) )

    the point of this forum: i have already said it when we conducted the polls. the polls told us, go ahead and we upgraded it. my view is that we provide a platform for sunnis to ask and learn with a certain level of confidence that sunni viewpoint will not be deleted. polemics, is banned outright or not tolerated on other forums - for whatever reasons those owners/admins/mods may cite. we don't shy from it - and we lock the post only when the poster (whether shia or devbandi) keeps repeating the same old stuff or as is their habit, jump from one branch to another, without resolving their original objection. that is frustrating and clearly indicates that those who have come around want to cause mischief. so we lock those threads.

    we could block everything - but then there is also a lot o misinformation about us sunnis which people take for granted and cite it as a universal truth: barelwis worship graves, barelwis do this, that etc. one syrian scholar (i won't name him) when i argued with him about devbandi-sunni split, that alahazrat was harsh and mistaken, and advised me to go to akram nadwi for more clarification. i told him, that it is in my own language, i don't need interpreters; but he tried to evade this by accusing alahazrat of making mistakes and that he said that "there is no zakat on paper money". i followed up by sending him a number of books and i don't know if he read them or changed his mind.

    i am sure, many people see and hear such things. and those who know post here.

    initially, people like myself, who had gathered some knowledge from here and there, part-timers with enough knowledge to appear knowledgeable (scratch the surface and you will find it hollow) would answer them - to the best of our limited abilities. there have been occasions where really knowledgeable posters battled it out (both from our camp and the "others") and i wish, such upcoming scholars in the UK or US, who can communicate in english use this to sharpen their skills of munazarah.

    we not only tolerate, but encourage people to use pseudonyms for the reason that they can be their own selves and not worry about making mistakes. this helps them improve.

    as for myself being anonymous: you might not find anything additional even if you know my real name. some of them already know it and i doubt that it has made any difference. there is nothing more to add - and you may discover that details are dull and uninteresting; just as you put it: "as a case of us simply being a bunch of low lives."

    we take some consolation that the forum is categorised in a simple manner for easy access to common folk. we encourage people to ask questions anonymously - and in that department, i don't remember having deleted any query or post (unless it spilled over to polemics, when it is usually separated from the original thread).

    if you are unhappy with polemics, there are so many other forums like fiqh hadith etc. where you can participate or start threads (aN beat me to it but i will say it too anyway). and i suppose this is where, less-knowledgeable and newbies should pitch in with their contribution by asking questions.

    we are open to be a discussion arm for the seekerspath.co.uk fatwa service. brothers on that site, started it with a good intention and i guess, they haven't received support overall. may Allah ta'ala aid them and we encourage them to keep going. so if you have further questions of clarifications or objections to the seekerspath fatwa service, go ahead and post it here. look at it as a sister forum for the fatwa site.

    we don't know but we assume that a few scholars visit this site. if you indeed do, and are willing to raise this forum to another level, please join in the discussions - and have your say. you do not have to answer everything - ulama have said: 'one who answers everything is mad'. if you think you can say something of benefit or correct some error, go ahead and do the favour. we can even create a special "scholar" category to differentiate qualified muftis and graduates.

    of course, some will whine and object that: "if he could answer such a thing, why doesn't he answer MY objection." it is your prerogative to answer - whether you do or not, your choice of consequences.

    we have been predominantly hanafi, but we won't hesitate to start forums for other madh'habs if we have people participating and writing about those madh'habs.

    we believe in cooperation and working with others. we have seen that sunnaforum wants to close partially, but i guess, it is good to have another forum where people can feel comfortable.

    the choice for this forum-software was mostly the resources section. we want you to post and populate the resources section (note that upload sizes are limited, but you can hotlink it from other sites).

    as of today, if an english-speaking/reading sunni asks me for resources, i have to search and send him links on various websites. we can be a link-aggregator, where you can post book links, or even article links as resources. since this is a new section, we will make rules as we go along and hopefully, in a few years, we will have mature catalogue. even links of mawlana farooq of bombay/bhiwandi in five six parts can be posted as a resource.

    wadood has a point:
    personally, i have met a few very good friends through this forum.

    wa billahi't tawfiq.
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2014
    Ghulam Ali and abu nibras like this.
  13. Adham12

    Adham12 Active Member

    Same here brother. Living in the U.S. and observing what is happening in the UK can make one's head hurt.

    I agree that this website has helped many, and I think it's better to have this sort of medium than not have it at all
    Wadood likes this.
  14. abu nibras

    abu nibras Staff Member

    Moderating Islamic forums is a full time Job, which cannot be done by people in their 30/40's who have jobs and livelihood to worry about - In the end we take a moderate way, and have people moderate who can give time and we make sure they are of sunni creed, and expect people to behave like adults.

    Spitting fire or having every post laden with sarcasm, with exaggerated titles for all God-knows-who looks intriguing, weird and gets old fast, but that's how some like it.

    Myself being in the US am totally lost at times with this UK pir politics.


    Mawlana abu hasan is an asset for us sunnis to learn from, he is a sunni soldier I have relied upon many a time. May Allah protect him.

    Even sunnis who wish to refute, should learn methods of analysis and refutation reading his books and papers, that said he too has moments of garm joshi , and I am glad it is much mellow that it was in 1999. We have had many a discussions and agreed on how the message is important than the nare-bazi surrounding it. If you were around those times where there were no sunni-forums around and where our opinion was deleted, if it did not match someone's liking, you would have appreciated what this platform is.


    Personally, I always wanted a sunni forum so that we have a peaceful corner on the web where we talk about sunni creed and get to ask and learn in an informal way. Searching for islamic questions on the web leads you to dungeons and dark alleys where non-sunnis are answering critical questions, altering aqidah of unsuspecting folk, so why not have a small corner where we have our point of views, not everyone is fortunate to have scholars or ilm-seekers at home.

    I always wanted and ideally want academic discussions to dominate these boards and refutation, whatever it be, to be clinical, sane and minimal around here. But popular popcorn threads are of the other type as you know, just look at the views.

    So - Is there any crass language and manners in posts here that has slipped the mods, absolutely.
    Can it be better ? Who wishes to volunteer making sure it does not happen ?

    I gave up long time ago on moderating here as there are many who lash out at everything and run after it with a sword. A portion of the crowd thinks that if you denounce someone or somebody's stance you have to do it not only academically but vehemently and pungently else the point is not made.

    What benefit does calling TuQ a padri have on my iman, if I already know his deviancy and make sure that others know it too by decent dialogue. How does calling him murtadd three times in a post help me, I am still trying to figure questions like these.

    And I seek refuge with Allah azza wa jall if any harm has come out of this place as I tend to be the from the ones who saw a need of such a place with Mawlana abu Hasan ten years ago.

    Why don't you start a productive thread and get people involved? The forum is as good as the threads, their topics and eventually the posters.

    was salam
  15. Wadood

    Wadood Veteran

    Well to say "complete insincerity and fakeness" is a very harsh statement for oneself and others. If you were, then you wouldn't have been on sunniport. There is only one point being made. Its about insincerity of Sunni brothers due to covert political games, and i suppose you mean done consciously or unconsciously.

    i think one can be a bit lenient to the brothers because most of them don't know the implications of what they are doing or how they should behave. Yes proper behaviour ought to be taught too, and what constitutes hypocrisy need to be learned too. You can teach the brothers that going after fame is not right. If they dont understand then this is an opportunity to teach them about why it constitutes hypocrisy and then have patience with them. Its like dawat to amr bil maroof. Years later the same brothers would regret their actions or be surprised at their past behaviours and how neglectful or blanketed their thoughts were. Social media is very drowning and societal pressures or peer pressures can be overwhelming. To immediately accuse someone or boycott them is a bit hasty.

    one can advise others and teach them because honestly human beings need guidance. Most people don't know what constitutes hypocrisy. Most people have limited capability to recognize right from wrong. Some reminding for a period of time has to be done for them.

    Ustadh Yasser can give guidance whether in the form of books, so be it.
    Sacred likes this.
  16. Sacred

    Sacred Active Member

    I am just talking about myself and many others

    Do you agree with some of the points being said?
  17. Wadood

    Wadood Veteran

    brother whose complete insincerity and fakeness are you talking about? i don't understand.

    Also are you angry?
  18. Sacred

    Sacred Active Member

    the main point is MY COMPLETE INSINCERITY AND FAKENESS this is something i have been doing in the past

    and i have totally learnt off what Yasser has been saying. I think his posts have been amazing apologies for sounded like i was having a shot.
  19. Wadood

    Wadood Veteran

    The main point of your post brother is the "lack of sincerity" shown through covert political games played by Sunni brothers. You have additionally made a number of assumptions that are equally unlikely as likely and somewhat unnecessarily harsh. You come across very strongly and haven't introduced yourself either.

    I don't take out popcorn, but carefully listen to what is being said for my own personal benefit. When a teacher talks, students should discipline themselves and pay attention while listening carefully.
  20. Sacred

    Sacred Active Member

    Totally agree with what with Yasser Rashid said. I have been feeling exactly that lately.

    That seriously has to be one of the best posts i have ever read on a forum

    1) I must admit most of the times i have only come on forums to see tamasha and to see who has been making mistakes and what the latest cussing going down is (how evil of me)

    it does seem like a cult at times on our forums. We all agree with the same things, we all dislike the same people. We all cuss the exact same way but then when it rebounds on people we like we just quiet down and hope it all disappears

    This was a post written by Kattarsunni which kind of made me think

    "Actually it will not create a problem amongst them. I don't think they will be bothered about internet forums (this sentence made me think alot. if they are not bothered about internet follows then what the heck are we doing wasting our time on here).
    Unlike the murids of Sh Yaqoubi's cult who got upset over a set of e mails the murids of Saqib Shami are much more responsible......

    2) The thing which has been annoying me lately is we have brothers who love maslak ala hazrat, they love our young sunni scholars here in the UK and heavily promote them. they cuss every sulla kullas on the planet (so they should) but then these same people never talk against shaykh yaqoubi or against the Habaib or even against imam asim for sharing platforms with tafzilis and AHM. They happily invite jamia al karam lads to do talks in the events they organise even though they know they sit with everyone including ninnowy in order to gain numbers! Why not speak out against the jamia al karam boys more specifically imam asim? is it because his not from the same city our scholars are from? (seems like a bit of politics)

    Why not speak out brave lads? the truth is they themselves are playing political games. I Cuss those who are local "threats" to the scholars I follow but I dont speak against the international ones (especially shaykh yaqoubi) because i feel like i will lose fame and so will the scholars that i follow.

    just go on FB and we find plenty of brothers who always iterate there love for Shaykh Asrar but how many of them openly speak out against Shaykh Yaqoubi? (with real facebook accounts not fake ones) Ajeeb.
    some totally cuss those who sit with deobandis and then in the next post talk about how great Shaykh Yaqoubi is and how much they love him to gain 200 likes from sisters.
    People need to stick to their guns and stop being so hypocritical


    Yasser Rashid: I think SOME people benefit from your posts in terms of they get entertained because they think wow its Shaykh Asrar's brother speaking out against everyone and hence they pull out the popcorn and think something is going to go down here...
    BUT ME I have got a lot of respect for you, you tell it straight not hiding behind no fake names (like myself)

    until we dont man up like Yasser nothing will ever happen. People just think where a waste of time with our fake accounts on fb etc just speaking against people because we know we wont get stopped one day and banged out ( i am speaking about myself and people like sufi abid/sufi baba)


    These were my thoughts if you dont agree i totally understand but i have been thinking when people go on social media are they speaking against people for themselves or for the Religion of God?

    Last edited: Sep 10, 2014
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page