Why the contradictions?

Discussion in 'Bickering' started by Mohammad Hassan Raza, Sep 22, 2009.

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  1. About Maulana Ilyaas Attaar Qaadri Sahab

    Assalaamu Alaykum

    First of all Eid Mubarak to everyone.. I have come back to Masabih after an interval of 2 months..

    Saying about Maulana Ilyaas Attaar Qaadri Sahab.. He is a Great Sunni Aashiq-e-Rasool Sallallahu 'Alayhe Wasallam, a Great Follower of MY Sarkaar a'ala Hazrat Radiallahu Ta'alah 'Anhu and is performing Great Works for Islaam ... and it is our Dua' that Insha Allah he Shall keep continuing... AAMEEN ....

    But even he has been questioned and can be... why not? If any Great Aalim or Mufti or Maulana , if he does anything, be it unknowingly or unintentionally anything that is against Shariah, even if it is slighttly contradictory, 10,000 hands point it out.. Why? I will answer u why...

    I had read a Rawaayat that once My Sarkaar Hazrat 'Umar Raziallahu Ta'alah 'Anhu had worn a long Kurta, longer than expected... Instantaneously he was questioned that " Ya Ameer al-Momineen, you are not given so much money from Bayt al-Maal that you stitch such a long Kurta.." To this My Sarkaar summoned his Blessed Son (Sorry Name i am forgetting) .. His Blessed son informed the people that Hazrat 'Umar Raziallahu Ta'alah 'Anhu has got the Kurta stitched by joining the cloths of Himself and His Blessed Son...

    You see even the Blessed Khalifah of Islaam Hazrat 'Umar Raziallahu Ta'alah 'Anhu had to answer to the people...

    So friends questions are raised because then only the clarifications are made..

    But defamation of any Aalim or scholar just like that is a SIN.... GUNAAH...!!!

    When Questioned from Taajush Shariah Dada Peer Huzoor Azhari Miyan Sahab Daamat Barkaatuhumul 'Aaliya the most dependable source on Sharaee Matters and also Qaazi al Quzzaat fi al-Hind about Maulana Ilyaas Attaar Qaadri Sahab he said " He definitely is a Sunni. The difference lies in the Method of Tableegh"

  2. Yaseen

    Yaseen Active Member

    Yes you're right the wahabiya too have differences but we have to understand that as Sunnis we have to portary the correct understanding of our maslak. Thus if somebody associated with us does something clearly out of line than we have to make it clear we have nothing to do wiyh this. Otherwise people will be quick to assume we all hold the same beliefs. The wahabiya always make a point of Dr T being the biggest barelvi authority alive, whils this is quite clearly not right.
  3. Abu Fadl

    Abu Fadl Banned

    Dear Aqdas, I did not mean the institution at all, in fact SBT I have heard know nothing about it but it is just some lands who hang out there.

    y_r I am sorry and did not mean that you have. That is why I said "if" and "anyone else". I have no idea about your site.

    In terms of not speaking out, I have said that if someone does not properly fit in the category of a misguided sect, then we should not be publicy talking about them. If you use this apporach then like the examples I have given, someone will always be finding something against someone else. It serves no purpose other than to give fuel to the wahabis. The wahabis-deobandis have difference but they do not open them to the public, especially on the internet etc. the awaam should avoid it and let ulama deal with it.

    Internet knows no control or bounds and people can say as much as they like. You have all sorts of irresponsible people on the web who take the message differently. Attacking your own weakens you.

    It is sad to see but there is a whole video series against Shaikh Hashmi Mian on youtube and it is made by sunnis!? Is this what we need?

    People have no clue in how to deal with things.
  4. y_r

    y_r Guest

    Yes, I agree, likewise I have no personal problems with the Haqqani or Dr. Tahir-ul-Qadri, but we have to address the issues and defend Haq.

    Wallah, if Maulana Ilyas Qadri (or anyone else for that matter) did anything wrong I would be just as hard on him.
  5. Yaseen

    Yaseen Active Member

    I'm in no way linked to Dawate islami but as a neutral i find it hard how anyone can have a problem with the work they do. They're as close as you'll get to Ala Hazrat 'alyhi rahma so u won't ee them indulging in music parties or saying things which could be deemed contrary to sunni 'aqeeda. As a sub-con sunni i'm grateful we have them as apart fom them i don't see anybody on an organisational level doing as much work in terms of hammering home the importance of salat and sunnat. They're also staunch sunnis and in my opinion ther're the true torchbearers of maslak-e-Ala Hazrat.

    Also the big-time akaabir scholars often speak in the favour so i think the fatway are prob from the wahabiya if anyone. Re Dr T i used to be big time admirer of his but when u start indulging in xmas parties and music raves u have to be prepared for the criticism i'm afraid. Likewise there was a thread on Shaykh Hisham Kabbani partaking in a mixed hadra so i don't think it's a case of a having an agend against Dr T.
  6. y_r

    y_r Guest

    You are making assumptions about me (based on a single message) as I have said before, name the scholars who have been disrespected, and we'll take it from there.

    As I mentioned before, I'm not a Mureed. However, I am well aware of the "Fatwa's" you speak of, but will refrain from talking on these matters, as my objective is not to spread Fitna.

    So in your opinion if something contradicts Islamic law we shouldn't speak out against it but rather remain silent?

    Also I'm pretty sure you where the first person to post that video of Shaykh Nazim on the sama thread.
  7. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    can you please advise

    1) what things they say about him?

    2) what fatwas they have put on him?

    3) what is the kufr they have attributed to him?

    and the reasons for the above.

    not being argumentative, just curious.

    i thought he was in the same kind of rankings as Shah Turabul Haq and Kaukab Noorani and Muzaffar Shah sahab. They do have ikhtilaf on fiqhi matters and strategy on minor things, but not matters of usul or 'aqidah. As Sunnis we simply can't agree with deviations in 'aqidah or usul.
  8. Abu Fadl

    Abu Fadl Banned

    There is a fair point that Dr Tahir Sahib is picked on too much and when other people do the same thing or do worse it is ignored, which makes it look like he is being made a permanent target. Yes, people talk about Shaikh Nazim too, but then people talk about everyone else too.

    y_r or anyone else, if you have been attacking scholars other than Moulana Ilyas Sahib then you need to realise that people say things about him too, people have put fatwas on him and that is by hard-core sunnis. One person has even talked about him doing kufr! Now I can tell you that I am in know way approving of this but the message I would like to give you people is that no one is spared, someone is always going after someone so you should all just remain silent.

    My appeal to all people is not to talk about any alim or shaikh, unless the person is clearly a wahabi, deobandi, shia or any other misguided sect and associates himself with such groups. This should be a golden rule. Whatever differences go on, let the Ulama deal with it and the public should stay out of it.

    The worst thing you can do is open up threads on internet forums and even worse are these stupid sunni exposers on youtube who attack other sunni scholars. I have heard that these sick people have even made websites that disrespect and insult our Ulamaa and members of the Ahl-e-Bayt. Who the hell are these little twerps to be doing such? These are rascals running around on the internet who no one even knows in their community yet they cause fitna on the net against buzurgs.

    Believe me, this is the thing what is harming sunniat most right now. before we had problems with ikhtilaaf among our ulama but now it has got into the hands of irresponsible juveniles who are spilling it all over the internet, they slander ulamaa and ahl-e-bait using fake names and are doing their best to cause as much disunity as possible. And guess what, they call themselves sunnis.

    edit mod [aqdas]: you can't plaster hearsay on the internet and name people/institutes.
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 6, 2009
  9. y_r

    y_r Guest

    Watch the video, I'm sure you'll find things not befitting a "Sultan Al Awliya".
  10. azizq

    azizq Well-Known Member

    lol faqir I know one local molvi who took his family to thorpe park.
  11. faqir

    faqir Veteran

    i haven't watched the video in its entirety as i've got better things to do but what exactly is wrong with anyone taking their family to 'disneyland'?
  12. y_r

    y_r Guest

    Please be kind enough to name such scholars who where defamed on that forum. As I can mention many who where given respect (other than Maulana Ilyas Qadri, btw, I'm not a Mureed).
  13. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    Sister Sobia

    Instead of emotional arguments it would be nice if you could explain how the critics of this person or that person or any person are right or wrong.

    Only then will we come to an objective conclusion.

    Just saying "defamation" or "they're criticizing him" are emotional arguments.

    Defamation can be valid and can be invalid too. If someone says something about khomeini, will you still say "scholars are being defamed"?

    No sister, we need to see what is being said AND what are the evidences for it. That's all.

    If you feel nazim al-qubrusi does not violate the shari'a in the video shown, please bring forward your evidence for it from the shari'a or make the case that the video is doctored.

    Otherwise, presenting emotional arguments is only an indication of a guilty conscience that you indeed believe the person to be in the wrong and is only hurtful to the case you are trying to make.


    You are very wrong to say that you accepted Islam through his guidance sister.

    Guidance ONLY comes from Allah.

    He could only have given you some material knowledge and that won't undo any wrong teachings or actions that he may have. The two (any material knowledge he provided you and any wrong beliefs/actions on his part) are mutually exclusive.


    I'm sorry to say sister, but you are again very wrong in assuming the subcontinental people consider themselves bastions of Islam or the Ahlus Sunnah.

    I have lived a few years in this person's native country and fluently speak his native language of Turkish and know for a fact that he is not appreciated in many Sunni Naqshbandi circles amongst his own Turkish peoples and also many Bosnians.

    In fact he is lesser known in Turkey than he is in the west. He is popular in Turkish Cyprus because that's his native island with a population of roughly 270,000 ONLY.

    He is not known in mainland Turkey the way he is known in the west. Its a safe bet to say roughly 60% of Istanbul (as a bare minimum) wouldn't have even heard of him.

    On the contrary he is extremely popular in European Sunni/Sufi circles. Propaganda and media hype can and do work wonders.

    There are plenty of Arab, Turkish, North & sub-Saharan African, Indonesian, Malay, Bosnian etc. scholars who have nothing to do with the subcontinent whom we exonerate as the torchbearers of the Ahlus Sunnah, both on forums as well as real life.

    The problem with those of us living in the west is that 1) we are minorities to start with and 2) everything is dependent on media-based popularity and there are only a few countable people (regardless whether you consider them right or wrong) who are popular and well known. Try to list out to yourself the number of Sunni scholarly personalities that you know. I'd be very shocked if you can come up with more than 20-30 tops!

    That's not even a start in each of the places like Yemen, Syria, Jordan, Palestine, Turkey (DESPITE all its modernism), Pakistan, India, Indonesia, Malaysia, Central Asia.... the list goes on - with plenty of them silently doing work for the deen, who are not even famous. Its always refreshing and pleasantly surprising and an iman booster to learn of a sheikh one didn't know of who has dedicated so beautifully to the deen and is also on the correct methodology of the Ahlus Sunnah - in Morocco, in Yemen, in Turkey, etc.

    As much as us western-based Muslims (regardless if we are Subcontinentals or Arabs or Turks or anything) might see various issues with life "back home" or some of the attitudes towards religion and the intertwining of culture and religion, etc - one thing is certain - there are still PLENTY of shuyukh who are of a far far far superior academic caliber than those popularly known in the west.

    Sure, the amount of hucksters we have "back home" are also beyond plentiful. I guess it's just directly proportional to the populations.

    I hope insha Allah you will look at my post objectively rather than emotionally.

    My aim is not to get you to dislike a person you might consider a rightly guided sheikh. My only hope is that you can see things objectively for yourself and also convey them to others objectively.
  14. sobia

    sobia New Member

    hmm i joined this forum after noticing this some what opinonated thread- I find it sick that narrow minded "sub-continental" Muslims think that they are the representatives of this beautiful peace loving deen which teaches us to go to lengths of great wall of chine to learn! I once used the YR forum which to say the least and shukr it closed down as all it offered was defamation of scholars unless obviously they were not maulana ilyas qadiri. Surprise surprise sheikh Nazim was one whom you so ardently pursued to defame.

    Reality is your awaam maybe put off? But the sheikh video has done so much service for this deen in the west, alhamdulilah through his guidance I also accepted Islam from sikhism. Infact its people like you who deface the true and pure Islam through your hate and put us off. It is widely acknowledged sheikh has provided great service well obviously not by the haters i mean its obvious jealousy and the way you have just stuck the name of Dr Tahir inside, just goes to show your agenda.

    edit mod [aqdas]: it's ramadan.
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 5, 2009
  15. Yaseen

    Yaseen Active Member

    i think this the biggest problem sunnis. Too many hi-profile individuals partake in activities that just put the awaam off. Add to this the erratic nature of some our "khateeb" and you have a cocktail for disaster.

    Keep it simple and stick with Ala Hazrat 'alyhi rahma. Thats my opinion as somebody with next to no knowledge.
  16. y_r

    y_r Guest

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