woh su'ey laalah zaar phirtey haiN

Discussion in 'Hadayiq e Bakhshish' started by sag e raza, Mar 26, 2011.

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  1. sag e raza

    sag e raza Active Member

    Rather be fakhr of Someone knowledgeable rather than a jaahil ;-)
  2. Wadood

    Wadood Veteran

    Then I guess "sag-e-raza" is the fakhr of zahid hussain from preston
  3. chisti-raza

    chisti-raza Veteran

  4. kattarsunni

    kattarsunni Veteran

    Who is Mufti Zahid Hussain? Do you mean Zahid Shah?

    Zahid Shah considers Bareilawis Nasbis. He also criticises Mufti Mustapha Rida Khan rahimahuAllah.
  5. Wadood

    Wadood Veteran

    Take it easy man. Give the brother's opinion a break. Whose fakhr are you? go take a hike
  6. sag e raza

    sag e raza Active Member

    ala hazrats poetry is not haphazard but

    some paradox there.

    mufti Zahid husain, who is much much MUCH MUCH more knowledgeable than abu hasan (maybe like a droplet of water or mist compared to an ocean) says that 4 people lower the coffin into the grave and the 5th person (the deceased) is left there, so 5 people go and 4 return which is what ala hazrat meant.

    but fakhre internet can interpret it however he wants for surely, he knows ala hazrat more than mufti zahid, or any other scholar in the world

    i salute you fakhre internet
  7. sag e raza

    sag e raza Active Member

    yes, they can but Allamah abu hasan, fakhre internet said the graveyard interpretation is wrong, ask fakhre internet why he thinks this is?
  8. chisti-raza

    chisti-raza Veteran

    why can't they all be correct? Actually, I love Noori's explanation and also the learned Scholar's too.
  9. sag e raza

    sag e raza Active Member

    hahahahah, is that why mufti zahid and muhadith e kabeer and shaykh noor ul-Mustafa and mufti faiz ahmed owaisi all say that its referring to the grave yard. but sorry, you're more cleverer than all the muftis of the world, only you understand what ala hazrat meant.

    you funny guy
  10. sag e raza

    sag e raza Active Member

    hahahahah, is that why mufti zahid and muhadith e kabeer and shaykh noor ul-Mustafa and mufti faiz ahmed owaisi all say that its referring to the grave yard. but sorry, you're more cleverer than all the muftis of the world, only you understand what ala hazrat meant.

    you funny guy
  11. medni

    medni Active Member

    additional two lines by mufti azam pakistan

    assalamu alikum.
    i was sitting with mufti ashfaq ahmad razvi of slough
    who is a student and mureed of mufti e azam pakistan mufti sardar ahmad.

    i read this very naat and he told me that when mufti sahib first heard the lines

    jo teray dar say yaar phirtay hain
    dar bader yoon he khwaar phirtay hain

    he added

    jo teray dar KO yaar phirtay hain
    HAR JAGAH BAA WAQAAR phirtay hain
  12. :s1:

    sidi, with regards to your last post about the use of the word 'dog' and the misfortunate who cannot understand metaphor and thus cry 'wolf' (pun intended!), if a blind man cannot see the sun it is not a proof of the sun's non-existence.

    dogs are, after all, faithful to their master--no wonder certain people don't like the word 'dog'!

  13. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    the last line,

    koyi kyuN puche teri baat raza
    tujh se shayda hazaar phirtey haiN

    why would anybody bother about you raza,
    a thousand mongrels like you roam about.

    [the original says, tujh se kuttey hazaar phirtey haiN; and i am doing a faithful translation to debunk a few objections raised by people shorn of any knowledge or zawq/feelings.]

    alaHazrat, out of sheer humility says that you are not any special that you should be accorded such great favor [he wished to see RasulAllah sallallahu `alayhi wa sallam with waking eyes] - you are just like any other mongrel roaming about. it is humility, it sprouts from an abject feeling one has when one feels rejected or dejected in love.

    fools, who cannot read properly and whose language skills do not progress beyond that of a 3rd grader, jump like monkeys on this couplet accusing alaHazrat of describing himself as a 'dog.' it would save them severe humiliation and they can avoid looking like morons they really are, if they look up a term known as 'figure of speech.'

    let us examine the word 'dog' itself. it is used to denote many things. in most cultures, a dog exemplifies faithfulness and service. also, a dog is used in english/arabic for something base or merits very little respect. stray dogs are meant when people say 'shoot down like dogs' - they are of no value and no one grieves for them. a dog in english idiom is described as 'man's best friend.' it is used as a guard as in watchdog.

    in the qur'an the word 'dog' is mentioned in two places [infact multiple mentions in surah al-kahf] describing bal`am ba`ura 'panting like a dog' and the real dog of the companions of the cave. in mufradat imam raghib, he says [among arabs] it denotes greed [fulanun aHraS mina'l kalb]

    the indo-persian culture it a metaphor that also denotes 'a faithful servant.' in numerous places people refer to themselves 'sag e ...' meaning the 'dog of...' routinely in the courts of kings [in the middle-ages, persian was the language of the court] people referred to themselves as sag-e-darbar [a-dog-in-the-court]

    alaHazrat is saying, many faithful servants roam about in these [madinah] streets - just like you; what is so special about you?

    or, after all you are not worth anything, do not hope for such great states.

    or, if one tries the deobandi style of explanation, alaHazrat is saying 'dogs roam about' - even the dogs in madinah are like you; he did not refer to himself as a dog.

    all said and done, to consider oneself a dog of RasulAllah sallallahu `alayhi wa sallam is to describe a great honor of being his servant; routinely people refer to themselves as dust under the feet - after all, a dog is a living thing.

    i mean, it is so obvious but some people really want to find fault with everything.

    Allah ta'ala knows best.
    Last edited: May 29, 2008
    Umar99 and Shahzaib like this.
  14. this is poetry so the question has to be asked: is any interpretaton more valid than any other one. At the end of the day only Ala Hazrat :ra: himself knows what he intended when he wrote those lines!

    Isn't this part of the pleasure of poetry that we an all have our interpretations--poetry is not mathematics!
  15. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    does the poem ever move away from the subject of madina? if so, then the graveyard explanation would be more possible.
  16. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    when I read explanation of 'hazrat sayyid faiz ah'mad awaisi (May Allah save him), I too was a little skeptical of the explanation, because it will make the couplet completely out of the flow. Therefore I agree with sidi abu hassan in that regard, however the explanation is from a sage, and we should accept it.

    Dismissal of other meanings is hard to swallow, because you cannot limit poetry to one meaing decisively, speically when it is not very obvious.
  17. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    alright then. perhaps, i am wrong after all.

    Allah ta'ala knows best.
  18. Abu Fadl

    Abu Fadl Banned

    yes it does not have to stay on the subject. there are other cases of this in Ala Hazrat's poetry. I asked another scholar and he said it refers to the carrying of a deceased to be buried, and completely dismissed the idea of the holy rawdah and said that explaination does not even make sense.
  19. :s1:

    Thanks for correcting 'gard' to 'gird' in the transliteration; however, i initially read it as 'gird' anyway and my translation reflected that--hence 'circumambulate'.

    Sidi Abu Nibras makes a valid point that in a ghazal (as opposed to a nazm)
    there is no need for the theme to be continuous from one verse to another.
    Indeed, this is one of the defining characteristics of a ghazal that each couplet within it can be completely self-contained and complete in itself.
    That said, I still feel your interpretation of place as the Rawdah Sharif is more correct than graveyard. Wallahu aalam.
  20. abu nibras

    abu nibras Staff Member

    within an english poem, yes, but within a ghazal...? its not the nazm we are talking about here to have tasalsul, so unless it is specified to be a musalsal ghazal by the poet, or is clearly understood to be one ; the latter of which seems true in this particular case every sheyr is an individual poem by itself.

    was salam


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