Zameel on Mufti Naqi Ali and hazir nazir

Discussion in 'General Topics' started by AR Ahmed, Jul 24, 2022.

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  1. AR Ahmed

    AR Ahmed Veteran

    A Deobandi quoted the statement of Mawlana Naqi Ali Khan rahmatullahi alayh out of context where he states:”For example, an ignoramus holds the belief in connection to an accomplished individual from the saints of this Ummah that he knows the conditions of the entire world altogether at all times and moments and whoever calls him at any time from any place he hears immediately, then although the belief is apparently not established, but if together with this he does not regard him to be independent in the knowledge and power, and regards them all to be from the notification and power of God, and nor does he regard him to be of necessary existence and deserving of worship, he will not become Mushrik based on this belief. Yes, the masses should be prevented from this belief and its falsity should be demonstrated… (Usul al-Rashad, Idarah e Ahl e Sunnat, p. 45-6)”

    Firstly, Hazrat Mawlana Naqi Ali Khan sahib قدس الله سره has not denied hadhir wa nadhir because hadhir wa nadhir refers to the Prophet salAllahu alayhi wa salam being hadhir wa nadhir although by Allah’s ata, this can be given to the Awliya al-kamilin as well but the Awliya al-kamilin hear through kashf rather than through qati` sources. What imam naqi Ali is denying is believing that hearing is decisive for Awliya قدس الله سرهم

    What Mawlana Naqi Ali is negating is the hearing/seeing being qati` not “the belief that saints are “hazir nazir” or are able to hear from a distance.”. Hearing from afar itself is different than hearing from afar without inqitaa. Secondly, this ibarat does not support the Deobandis because Mawlana Naqi Ali rahmatullahi alayh states that if he considers their power to be created from the power of Allah then this is not shirk.

    See here on p. 45-46

    It is written in Malfūẓāt A‘lā Ḥaḍrat:

    Question: Huḍūr, do the Awliyā’ have the ability to be present in multiple places at one time?

    Answer [by Imam Aḥmad Riḍā Khān Barelwī]: If they want, they can accept 10,000 invitations from 10,000 cities at one time!

    Question: Huḍūr, we get the impression from this that the “bodily images” (ajsām mithāliyyah) from the “world of images” (‘ālam al-mithāl) are subject to the Awliyā’, thus one individual is seen in multiple places at one time. If this is so, a doubt arises on this, that the image is other than the thing. The existence of the images is not the existence of the thing. So the existence of those bodies will not be regarded as the existence of that body?

    Answer [by Imam Aḥmad Riḍā Khān Barelwī]: Even if they are images, they are [images] of the body [only]. His pure soul, being connected to all of these bodies, has powers of discretion. Thus, via the spirit and reality, that one being, is present in all places. This too is according to a surface understanding. Otherwise, it [states] in Sab‘ Sanābil Sharīf that Ḥaḍrat Sayyidī Fatḥ Muḥammad (his soul be sactified) wrote about attending ten gatherings, and upon this, someone asked: “Ḥaḍrat, you have agreed to be present at ten places at one time, how can this be?” The shaykh said: “Krishna/Kanhaiya was a disbeliever and was present at one time in several hundred places; if Fatḥ Muḥammad is present at one time in several places, what is strange about that?” (Sab‘ Sanābil)

    Saying this, [Imam Aḥmad Riḍā Khān Barelwī] mentioned: Do you think that Shaykh was present at one place and images at other places? Absolutely not! In fact, the Shaykh himself was present at all places. The inner realities are beyond the surface understanding. (Malfūẓāt A‘lā Ḥaḍrat, p176-7)
    Mubashar Luqman likes this.
  2. Umar99

    Umar99 Veteran

    @abu Hasan how is the quote of mufti naqi ali khan meant to be understood?

    an explanation would be very much appreciated جزاک اللہ خیرا
  3. ramiz.noorie

    ramiz.noorie Active Member

    Zameel deobandis have putrid creed regarding Imkan e Kizb , then anything is expected from them. I hope Sh. Asrar smashes them.
  4. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    you beat me to it. but i will add something later, in sha'Allah.

    @AR Ahmed : jazakAllahu khayra
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2018
  5. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    zameel is the worst among the lot - utterly shameless and has no compunctions in lying and slandering. i sometimes think that this be-ghayrat does not believe in judgement day.

    though not surprised, because he is so shameless that he accuses the Lord Almighty of being able to lie - al iyadhu billah - and have other flaws.

    jahan mein koyi bhi kafir ke kafir aysa ho
    jo apne rabb pe safahat ka dagh le ke chale

    they make accusations casually, and even after being disproved, walk away as if nothing happened, without even acknowledging that they were wrong or that they made false claims or that they should apologise.

    but jootey khana aur zaleel hona to inki qismat hai...

    kahin noor hai, kahin naar hai.
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2018
    Umar99, Ghulam Ali, Unbeknown and 2 others like this.
  6. ramiz.noorie

    ramiz.noorie Active Member

    I hope sh. asrar will look at the blog of zameel , i am certain lots of material will be used in the debate , before zameel deletes or hides the blog, must copy it so that Sh. Asrar can prepare for response

    knowledgeable brothers please look at this latest claim
    Ahmad Rida Khan’s Father Rejects the Belief in Hazir/Nazir, Hearing from a Distance, for Saints

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