Padri and Mufakkir at Wembley

bhaRii bazm mein raaz kii baat keh dii
BaRa bay-adab hooN, sazaa chaahita hooN!

 

mehrbaaN ho ke bulaa lo mujhe chaahO jis waqt
maiN gayaa waqt nahiN huN ke phir aa bhi na sakuN

 

thanks for the info muhammad ali; i guess i am too simple and good-hearted for my own good. well, i try to see the best in everyone if i can. i cannot believe after that humiliation SAQS is still being pally with Cardinal Tahir...

oh well, as they say in french, "plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose"

or as another proverb goes, "birds of a feather, flock together!"


--

 

haaye! yeh qatil adaaein, yeh nakhra

 

For everyones information mainly Brother Naqshbandi. Even after yesterday Pir Abdul Qadir Sahib has not broke up with Dr Tahir ul Qadri Sahib. Dr Sahib apologised for giving Pir Abdul Qadir Sahib less time yesterday. Now they are back together and Minhaj ul Quran has organised a welcoming event for Pir Abdul Qadir Sahib tomorrow!

 

brother muhammad ali,
good post. i agree with that. TUQ has been a deviant for a long while now.
but why do so many arabs and ajamis attend his gatherings/events (like this one) or the "retreats" he does in the UK now once a year?

--
muhammad ali it is really sad that people use sayyid irfan shah sahib like that. see this is what i hate--this two-faced nature of so many of our 'ulema'. like on ummah tv/takbeer tv they will cuss TuQ, or refute the tafzilis, but then the next day or week they are happy to go to mehfils organised by those same people!

 

:s1:
sidi abu hassan!

i have not changed my position i.e. i still espouse the same pov as sayyid irfan shah sahib and believe we are correct on where we differ from SAQS sahib but i questioned the wisdom of this continuing tit-for-tat on the Web. Yes, I do understand its not the same as we are in the right and the other side is on the wrong.

--
also i questioned if SAQS differences from us are enough for him to be declared out of ahlus sunnah. that is a job for scholars.
--

about what other people think the sad irony is that those who are religiously-inclined from amongst the shia, deobandis, wahabis, ahle hadith, and other deviants consider both TuQ and SAQS to be Barelvis no matter what we say on here. I know that shouldn't be our concern but it should make us realise the limits of the WWW.
--
btw i still think if SAQS' lot resolved their differences with us it would be a boon for sunnis in the UK. do i see it happening? no because of ego.

----
as for the Padri i did not even try to defend him. his latest shenanigan was a disgrace. see this is my problem now: we rightly condemn TuQ for doing these inter-religious haram prayers and bhajans etc. (it was shocking to see ulema listening to sikh singing from the guru granth sahib whilst 'sunni' ulema looking on!) but what of all the maulvis/pirs who also attended?
--
btw the answer to your question as to why sunni ulama are silent on TUQ is, sorry to say, most of the ones in the UK at least, with the exception of people like sayyid irfan shah sahib and ansar ul qadri sahib and a few other honourable ones, don't have a backbone between them. in fact they would die to get on CNN, BBC, etc. and because most of them aren't invited they then are happy to go on the same stages as TuQ --despite his shameless deviancy--to get some 'reflected glory'.

--
why have i lost respect of most of them, sunnis included? thank god for people like sayyid irfan shah sahib and the others who work silently and tirelessly but are not heard of.
--

as for iqbal rahmatullah alayhi, i have studied and read him in detail and his life went through distinct phases and these included westernisation and impressed by orientalists when he was a young man but after he returned from europe he changed a lot and by the end he was a hardcore sunni who sat with sunni akabir like pir sayyid jamaat ali shah, wrote to pir sayyid mihr ali shah etc. and was a massive ashiq e rasool and, many sunni ulema say, a wali as documented accounts have been given of his karamats/visions by, for example, his personal servant. his latter poetry --especially the farsi stuff--is all about pining for madina and huzoor صلى الله عليه وسلم. so, yes, over his lifetime iqbal went through often contradictory phases but that is natural as he grew.

--
btw, i only quoted that verse because it describes the ulema e soo like TUQ so well.

 

Good posts by Brother Abu Hasan, said everything that I was trying to say in a much better way. I think everything of Dr Tahir ul Qadri looks minor to all this love he has for non muslim mushriks. What about when he says the word Allah can be used for Brahman or Bagwan etc?

Allama Kokab Noorani refutes him on his affairs with non muslims:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Gz7QNRsIUE

Peer Syed Irfan Shah Sahib Message Direct to Dr Tahir ul Qadri on TV:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwAtsDjtQBA

Is Dr Tahir Qadri a Reviver(Mujaddid) - Pir Syed Irfan Shah Sahib:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUPoCtgpCaE&feature=channel_video_title

The video that Brother Ghulam shared earlier, Shah Sahib uses harsh language in that. He was quite angry because Minhaj ul Qur'an and Dr Tahir ul Qadri tried to get him banned from that venue. They did succeed after that lecture!

I think if Shah Sahib was a little softer it would of been better, because of his tough policy a lot of the Sunni Scholars do not back him. They use him, play around with him and let him go. Takbeer TV lot that were sitting in this event, used Shah Sahib first to refute Shia. When they got Dr Tahir ul Qadri they totally left Shah Sahib. Its the same for Jamat E Ahlesunnat UK. Every Scholar backs him when they see him or ring in his programs showing support. But when it comes to these events they don't call him because they never know what's going to happen.

Finally I have heard that Shah Sahib watched yesterdays event on QTV. He watched all these bajans and hare rama chants. He watched it right till the end

I am sure we will see some sort of a reply from Shah Sahib. But then again its always him and no one else. Pir Karam Shah Sahibs son Pir Amin ul Hasanat Shah Sahib was sitting in this event all the way. Yet some people come quick to defend him, they should read Jamal E Karam. Which is signed by him their is a lot of shocking stuff their!

As for Pir Abdul Qadir Sahib and his speech, such a big so called Muffakir and only got 5 minutes. Makes me laugh, this is all Minhaj ul Qur'an and Dr Sahib wanted. That Pir Sahib promotes and praises Dr Sahib once. They got that and now threw him away like a used tissue paper. Dr Sahib was never bothered about this reunion, he doesn't care. His aims are different now, he is more focused on non muslims than sunnis!

 

This was before his tawbah from all of that jahalat. He was a commoner not a scholar of Islam. He had been influenced by kuffar. He used to sit with qadyaniyya. Infact it had become famous in Punjab that he was a qadiyani and major deviant.

 

Dr Tahir has insulted Sayyiduna Abu Bakr raDyAllahu 'anhu

 

In the last years of his life, he returned to Ahlusunnah [may Allah bless Sayyid Jama'at 'Ali Shah] and died in tawbah as well.

Day and Night he was at the maqams of Awliya Allah in the end days of his life.

 

Dr Tahir has attacked Sayyiduna Abu Bakr raDyAllahu 'anhu by calling him political khaleefa. Sayyiduna Abu Bakr raDyAllahu 'anhu is the Best man after the anbiya 'alayhimsalam

He has attacked the Companion of HabeebAllah salAllahu 'alayhi wa alihi wa sallam in the Cave. It was he, who carried our Master salAllahu 'alayhi wa alihi wa sallam on his blessed back all the way up the blessed mountain.

 

this padri is an absolute disgrace !!!

 

Iqbal tried advocating 'evolution' to be incorporated in to Islam.

He also denied Imam Mahdi, he said Dajjal is a system, and many other deviances.

 

well frankly, i do not agree with shah sahib's way of saying it, even if i agree with what he says.

this, with due respect to sayyid sahib.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtube_gdata_player&v=9RzKi2mtpL0

Syed Irfan Shah saying same thing as Abu Hasan.

 

you start with a wrong premise. this is sunnis refuting those who claim to be sunnis. it is NOT intra-sunni fighting.

actually, sunnis should be proud of this. this shows that we stick to principles and to refute anyone who goes out of the boundary of ahlu's sunnah. unlike devbandis who will try to find the most outlandish excuses to justify their 'akabireen'.

this is the triumph of alahazrat - the principle that he fought for and taught us sunnis: respect a man ONLY if he stays with the jama'ah; and if he goes out of the group: man shadh'dha shadh'dha ila'n naar.

wa billahi't tawfiq.

you are not even capable of discerning the fundamental difference (after all these years), but yet dismiss it as inconsequential. like a person who is unable to see gangrene in the leg, but is upset with the doctor because he wants to amputate it.

brother, you break my heart.

 

i expected to find tahir's act revolting; and in spite of that, i peeked in and quickly listened to a few minutes here and there.

sub'HanAllah! muslims give their hard earned money to listen to hare krishna and hare rama? this is worse than listening to his son's poetry.

-----
i am shocked that 'ulama' in the UK are dozing off.* there should be a fatwa out there signed by all major ulama. and i don't know how anybody calling himself a sunni alim can even stand alongside a person like tahir. if i was forced to do so for some reason, i would go home and take a ghusl and pray two-raka'ah for tawbah and ask Allah ta'ala forgiveness.

what are they afraid of? his 'knowledge'? he is a charlatan and even if he were a scholar, i would not consider him as we say in urdu: 'jooti ki nok pe' after all his antics humiliating islam and muslims. astaghfirullah, has the self-respect of muslims reached such an ebb that they don't feel revolted by this nonsense?

laa Hawla wa laa quwwata illaa billah.

for those who admire tahir: would you invite hindus, sikhs and buddhists to your home under the pretext of mawlid an-nabi and chant these mantras? why is going to a pop-concert haram; but listening to shirk of the polytheists (and applauding) under the banner of 'quran' and 'rasulAllah' permissible?

have people lost their minds?

-----
*except some ulama like mawlana irfan shah sahib.

 

m.ali said:

sayyid irfan shah sahib is a true follower of the salaf in that he does not care for public opinion and does not hesitate to criticize the rich and famous celebrity pirs. instead of attacking him we must join with him.

and for nj's rants: if you haven't heard of hamlet, haven't read hamlet, but write a critique on the soliloquy; it may sound smart to those who are learning english, but any student with english as a major will find it ridiculous. if you cannot see paqs mistakes or tuq's variations - just keep quiet instead of accusing all others of being obstinate and unwilling to see the whole picture.

your problem is a common one that plagues the ummah today: by merely learning to read english or urdu, they begin to imagine that sunni scholars are fools and narrow-minded with withered thinking ignoramuses. and based on this fantasy and a false sense of 'knowledge', they go about assailing islamic thought for centuries without as much as having opened a book to investigate what they might have written.

if a man like dr.iqbal fell for this subterfuge of the devil, what can you expect from lesser mortals who do not have a fraction of his knowledge? in spite of his so-called 'resistance' to western thought, you can see that he has a latent inferiority complex; together with a superiority complex (to the point of condescension) vis-a-vis ulama of islam and islamic learning. he writes as if he 'knows' (religious) concepts whereas, he is barely acquainted with them. this is visible in his letters where he unsuccessfully argues against some concepts of tasawwuf (which even beginner-students know; i mean, serious students) and the incredibly flawed: 'reconstruction' where he unwittingly exposes his ignorance of islamic history and thought.

no doubt, he was well-read; he was a great poet; he was a genuine thinker of islam; he seems to be sincere in his commitment to the community - but still, he was 90% philosopher who was steeped in persian and western philosophy. in spite of his ostentatious claims of 'tasawwuf' etc., he is bound hand and foot with his egotistic philosophy. his claims of 'freedom' are actually shackles of extraneous knowledge. much of his 'islamic knowledge' is received through the filter of tusi and sadra.* a point that imam ghazali mentions in kimya, that sometimes, knowledge is the chain that ties your feet, and does not let you proceed towards the Lord.

freedom is not in liberating the khudi** but to annihilation of the self in the path of khuda. "none of you has believed unless his desire is concurrent with what i have brought" said the master, sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam.

as the sufiyah al-kiram say: 'you cannot pour honey and vinegar in the same vessel'

----
ironically, his own lines describe his madness aptly:

falsafah rah gaya talqin e ghazali na rahi.
or
ho gayi kis ki nigah tarz e salaf se beyzar.
or
kawn hai taarik e aayeen e rasul e mukhtar


he says:
aaj bhi ho jo baraheem ka iman payda
aag kar sakti hai andaz e gulistan payda

so instead of working to increase the iman - which is in following the shariah - he goes off lobbying to create a gulistan.

----
alas! such a talented man, and what a waste of intellectual capital! he squandered away his gifts - whereas, he could have been a very successful mufti with his insight and razor sharp intelligence. we coulda been mentioning him with respect alongside alahazrat and mufti e a'azam.

magar ye ho na saka aur ab ye aalam hai...

wa laa Hawla wa laa quwwata illa billah.

----
simply because, if he had read ghazali, or accepted ghazali's talqin, he would not have said the many things he did. many of his poems contain outright kufriyat. apart from his 'ji-huzuri' of kings and princes, while disdainfully addressing ulama.

----
so, my advice to you is: don't join iqbal. when you are dead and lowered in your grave, it is not how much of iqbal or hegel you have read; and i can guarantee you that iqbal would have rued in his grave the many years he wasted on philosophy (which is pretty much until his death, that is).

if you haven't read kimya e sa'adat and minhaju'l abidin, it is not late yet. i can give you PDF copies if you wish.

wa billahi't tawfiq.


-------------
*sometimes he seems to be schizophrenic - eloquently talking about the sufi path and praising it; and thereafter joining the persian philosophers in their flights of fancy. perhaps this conflict could be because of the discrepancy in his early and later works. but such inconsistency exists even in his later years, such as 'reconstruction of religious thought.' one should not be fooled by the extensive name-dropping iqbal does in this piece.

** there are a number of problems with this philosophy and islamic values as taught by the sufis. iqbal's criticism is dishonest when he chooses to take superficial meanings where it suits him and revels in the figurative and abstract meanings where it suits his fancy of being a 'liberated' intellectual.

 

Here we go Brother Naqshbandi:

Pir Abdul Qadir Sahib at Dr Tahir ul Qadri Wembley Event - 2011

He left because he got less time and even mentioned it at the end. He walked out straight after his speech and no one from Minhaj ul Quran stopped him. He didn't even sit till the Bajan show so he didn't know if their would be Bajans or not.

Here is over 2 hours of the event, his speech was at the start:

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/17474503

All I am saying is he wanted more time and thats it. He is also hungry for media attention like Dr Tahir ul Qadri. But Dr Tahir ul Qadri spent the money so why would he let him do that?