Attributing Zamaan, Makaan, Jism and Jihah to Allah

Discussion in 'Aqidah/Kalam' started by qattarridawi, Feb 9, 2015.

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  1. Shihāb Dīn

    Shihāb Dīn New Member

    i skimmed through the videos; it's sad to say but i've noticed that many speakers/figures from the subcontinent seem to be misinformed about this entire issue.

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    the wahhābīs go to one extreme by insisting that Allāh is in a place wal 'Iyādhu billāh.

    publically decrying the schools of both the Salaf and the Khalaf, and choosing to prescribe to the taymiyyan convention in tawHīd - an amalgamation of Aristotelian and Hashawī beliefs.

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    individuals like mr.speaker and zayn ul aqtab believe that the best response is extreme contradistinction - thats is:

    - x says Allāh resides in a place
    - i [mr.speaker or aqtab] must say Allāh is everywhere
    - for if He is not everywhere, He must be somewhere
    - it is impossible for Allāh to be somewhere as that must mean he is in a 'place'
    - therefore i must be right in insisting that He is everywhere, as that is the only way to make a distinction between us and anthropmorphists

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    wrong. Allāh - most Exalted is He - is free from time and space. the reason we don't believe that He is in a 'place' is not because He is 'everywhere', but because time and space are His creations; both are contingent. simple

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    as for using fa thamma Wajhullāh as a proof for the literal omnipresence of the Creator in creation, we shouldn't base it on our own conjectured understandings of Allāh; but in line with the clear verses of the Qur'ān and AHādīth.

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    i'd drafted some points, but it's late; so i'll just summarise a line from Tafsīr al BayDāwī:

    فَثَمَّ وَجْهُ ٱللَّهِ } أي جهته التي أمر بها، فإن إمكان التولية لا يختص بمسجد أو مكان. أو { فَثَمَّ } ذاته: أي هو عالم مطلع بما يفعل فيه​

    1. this can mean that we may turn to Allāh wherever we are; there is no restriction to one specific place.

    2. this can mean the Dhāt of Allāh. that is, He is all-Knowing and is aware of what is performed in any place. [note: when mentioning Dhāt, none of the tafsīrs intend to mean that Allāh's Dhāt is everywhere; rather, they intend to show that Allāh Has absolute knowledge of everything in His creation]
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    Allāh knows best.
     
    Ghulam Ali, Noori and Aqdas like this.
  2. Exposition

    Exposition Active Member

    https://www.facebook.com/notes/isma...ding-to-the-elders-of-the-n/10150357067384108

    reply from a mureed/student from a few years back
     
  3. YaMustafa

    YaMustafa Well-Known Member

  4. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    Alas! even my 7 years old son knows it very well that Allah doesn't have face, hand, leg or other body parts because these are the physical attributes of His creation and He Himself has said ليس كمثله شئ . there is no benefit in saying that He has face/hand/leg that befits His Majesty, and that His face/hand/leg etc. is not like His creation; because none of of His creation has attributes similar to others in shape, they are always different in some way, what is common is that they have a (physical) face/hand/leg.

    Even a child can easily understand that if ساق، يد، وجه and other words related to body parts or direction are taken literally then ليس كمثله شئ will not hold true.
     
  5. qattarridawi

    qattarridawi New Member

    His aqeedah is contradictory, he is unsure himself what he believes
     
  6. kattarsunni

    kattarsunni Veteran

    AH is right.

    These type of people have been the face of 'Sufis' or 'Barelawis' for the past 40 years or more. Very ignorant people.

    They run our institutions.
     
    qattarridawi likes this.
  7. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    a dear brother suggested that i should not call monkey-face as monkey-brain. i said, he claimed it himself.
    who am i to say: 'oh you don't know about yourself..'?
     
    qattarridawi likes this.
  8. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    more imbecility by monkey-brain. according to him "tafsir of hadith" has to be consulted for the hadith of jariyah, he quoted.

    but what about tafsir of qur'an, monkey-brain? all the verses you quoted and made tafsir were just as you described yourself: monkey-brain explanations. the tafsir of "fa thamma wajhu-Allah" no one said what monkey-brain said.

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    monkey-brain in the video below is an idol worshipper. he is not a muslim. he does not understand basic meaning of tawhid.
     
  9. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    @16.21 monkey-brain cites a hadith of bukhari: "I am with my slave when He remembers me..." and tries to prove that this means "Allah is everywhere".

    my question to monkey-brain is: 'what about the case when a slave does not remember Him?' because according to you, this hadith qudsi means, "he is with you, in every place". therefore, according to your explanation, He should NOT be with him (who does not remember Him).

    ta'ala Allahu `uluwwan kabeera.

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    ps: i hope monkey-brain can understand my question.
     
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  10. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    @6.10, monkey-brain cites the verse from surah an'am, 6:3 and insists on its literal meaning. monkey-brain says further:

    @7.54:
    because monkey-brain didn't get the memo: they insist so vehemently, because that IS the correct sunni aqidah. even though i knew that i wouldn't find anything contrary, just for emphasis, i checked nearly 33 tafsirs and none says that "He is in the earth" [al-iyadhu billah]; not even the literalists who say that "He is in the heavens". sub'HanAllah.

    among these commentaries, i found one which is most relevant here, and that is found in tafsir tha'alabi [jawahir al-Hisan, abd al-Rahman al-tha'alabi al-maliki, d.875 AH] :

    the fundamental principle to be followed here in this verse, is that: incarnation [Hulul] of Allah ta'ala in any place is [absolutely] impossible [mustaHil]. Exalted is He to be bounded in a place [or space]; just as He is transcendent from being in confines of time. Rather, He has existed, before He created space and time; and He is now as He was always [that is, free from space and time.]

    an'am,v3-thalabi.jpg


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    in fact, biqa`yi (d. 885 AH / burhanuddin ibrahim al-shafiyi) said it aptly - perhaps anticipating monkey-brains who make tafsirs without basic knowledge of aqidah:

    anyone with a right mind will not take the literal meaning of the verse, which would suggest dwelling in space...
    biqayi, 6-3.jpg

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    which means monkey-brain does not have aql SaHiH. hence my saying that he is an idiot.

    Allah ta'ala knows best.
     
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  11. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    @7.08 - monkey-face admits that his is a monkey-brain
    @8.54 - monkey-brain admits that he has a monkey-face
     
    Abu Hamza likes this.
  12. Abu Hamza

    Abu Hamza Hanafi-Maturidi

    At first i thought abit harsh but having watched the video, this guy is a pantheist, possibly an evolutionist, disgusting aqeedah! I didnt even watch the entire clip
     
  13. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    idiot zindiq jahil.
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    monkey face with a monkey brain, as he admits himself.
     
  14. qattarridawi

    qattarridawi New Member

    I came across this so called Shaikh Tauqeer who is the brother in law of Zain ul aqtab sidiqi and co from Al-Hijaaz college. It was shocking to see the son in law of Shaykh Abdul Wahab sidiqi Rahimahullah being so misguided in his aqeedah regarding Allah and clearly going against what the Salaf and Khalaf believed. Has this video been discussed before?




     
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