Aziz Mian: Interesting link and FASIQ/RIDDAH poetry samples

Discussion in 'Poetry' started by sunnistudent, Dec 17, 2010.

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  1. sunnistudent

    sunnistudent Veteran

    Imam Rabbani Mujaddid alf thani (Rd) wrote :

    ( 1 )Everything occurring to the mind or imagination and everything understood through kashf and shuhud are creatures and that they are called masiwa

    Hamd be to Allahu ta'ala and salam to those slaves of His chosen and loved by Him! The valuable letter sent by the light of my eye has arrived here. "As if they were toys on the way of tasawwuf, all the things amusing the travelers have disappeared with the help of Allahu ta'ala. Nothing is now continuous. Everything coming to my mind or imagination is disappearing as soon as I say the word 'la'," you say. You write many other similar things. You add that you have been struggling so that they will be annihilated and hoping that later on they will be annihilated spontaneously. My dear son! All the things coming to the mind and imagination, even those pieces of knowledge found out through kashf and shuhud, are masiwa, whether they are afaqi, outside of man, or anfusi, inside man. [In other words, they are the creatures of Allahu ta'ala.] To set the heart on them means to waste the time on trivial things such as playing and toys.

    (2) Sayr-i anfusi' and Sayr-i afaqi

    To escape the knowledge of the imagination, it is necessary to pass beyond the way and grades which tasawwuf calls "Sayr-i anfusi" [ 'Sayr' means 'to go, to make progress', 'Anfus' means 'inside man', 'Sayr-i anfusi' means 'man's progress inside himself'.] as well as the way called "Sayr-i afaqi" [ 'Afaq' means 'outside man'. 'Sayr-i afaqi means 'man's making progress outside himself'.], and to make progress beyond afaq and anfus. Most Awliya reach there only after death. It is impossible for them to get rid of the fancy in this world. A very few selected ones from among the great ones of the awliya were bestowed upon this blessing when they are alive in this world.

    (3)Anfus (inside man), like afak (outside of man), is the shade, image of names. If, through Allah's grace, the shade forgets about himself and returns to his origin and begins to love his origin, he finds himself as his origin, as is stated in the hadith, "Everyone will be together with whomever he loves." He deems his existence as the existence of his origin. This origin also has an origin. From the first origin he passes to the second origin. He finds himself this second origin. Thus, he moves forward from one origin to another. This sayr is a journey which is above the afak and the anfus. Some called the sayr-i anfusi sayr-i fillah. The sayr which we are explaining is different from the sayr which they talk about. For, their sayr is husuli, whereas this one is wusuli.

    Ref: Maktubat sheriff of Imam Rabanni . Some of the letters are on

    The sharah of these letters is available in Persian and Urdu.
  2. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    without rationalizing aziz miaN or his revelry, the line below is similar to some sayings in the Hikam of sayyidi ibn aTayillah:
    vast is difference between he who seeks to guide by the Lord, and he, who seeks to guide towards the Lord. [yastadillu bihi aw yastadillu `alayhi] one who seeks to guide by Him has recognized the Reality and that He Alone is the Truth, the Reality, the Haqq [`arafa'l Haqqa li ahlihi]; and so, this affirmation is originally [on account of his recognition] of the Existence [of the Lord Almighty].

    and the guidance towards Him is because [the one who guides] has not reached the Lord yet.

    otherwise, when is He hidden? such that one be guided towards Him?

    and, when is He distant? such that signs and evidence help one to reach Him?
    [Hikmah 29]

    in another aphorism [#33] he says:
    The Lord of Truth, the Truthful Lord, The Haqq is not veiled from you; rather you are in veil and unable to behold Him.
    wa billahi't tawfiq.
  3. sunnistudent

    sunnistudent Veteran

    Sharah of a similar line explained by Mawlana Muhibullah Ilahabadi al Chishti (Rh) states, it is talking about the verse from al quran which talks about "He being closer to you than yourJugular vein" and also the narration which sufiya karam have used " man arfa nafsahu faqad arfa rabb".

    It is a means of making a salik to concentrate towards his self, thereby indluge in pas anpas and maraqaba.

    Please note: I have not read this thread completely.
  4. RadiatingAli786

    RadiatingAli786 New Member

    If it was any worth then Imam Ahmad Raza Khan Barelwi Rahimullah alayhi tallah would have written it.
  5. I say, old chap, steady on! Isn't this a bit of an extremist view? That would do away with 90% of most poetry then...
  6. RadiatingAli786

    RadiatingAli786 New Member

    The person translation the above line incorrectely, correct translation is:

    "Lost have {you, your} God, for which you are looking for?"

    Its a question to someone else, i guess the person who translated it didnt know Urdu good enough.

    Anyway, all poetry written not in praise of Allah and RasoolAllah {SAW} and not written for the sake of Tableegh is pointless and worthless.
  7. Abu Fadl

    Abu Fadl Banned

    if his poetry is as bad as some of you make out (kufr and what not) I think he would have had fatwas plastered all over him by ulama as he was such a famous qawwal as were the sabri brothers. I think people should contact ulama before making such huge statements against others.
  8. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    read it here and i know why you said "if you can". i just tried!

    do you know if shari'at aur tariqat is online? it's not the same as maqal al-'urafa is it?
  9. :s1:

    you raise a whole list of valid questions but the only issue i am asking about is the original one in this thread, 'are these verses of aziz mian blasphemous and disrespectful?'
  10. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    multiple issues must be dealt separately; valid proof in one case should not be used to prove/disprove another.

    1. aziz mian himself in light of his antics

    2. the status of poems sung by aziz mian

    3. qawwali itself (with drums and music)

    4. what is the nature of sama'a of the sufis (permissible)

    4a. distinction to be made in what is permissible and what is not (3 & 4)

    4b. what is the reason for sama'a and benefit gained from it?

    4c. is it allowed for everyone and generic or specific?

    5. can anyone say whatever they desire using the excuse of metaphor? is there any limit or are there any conditions where squalid metaphors are excusable?

    5a. rationalizing a shocking statement, when and where is it appropriate?

    6. how important is the shariah for a sufi or is he exempt?

    7. are there limits for exemption claimed and how far do such exemptions have a known-precedent?

    8.commercialization of sama'a/qawwali - how far does it achieve the proposed objectives stated in 4b?

    as for faqir's comment:
    if this was said by a scholar - or even a person adhering to shariah outwardly - we could have said, 'this man looks like he respects shariah; so probably it is metaphorical'. but when it is said by a man who does not even resemble a muslim [sorry, the sabri brothers wear a cap] and says things that are outrageous, i think it is easier to trash it and ask them to behave and conform to the shariah than rationalize that nonsense.

    there is plenty of lovely poetry and in sweet and graceful language said by men whose character and behavior commands respect. why should we suffer broken meters and cacophony?

    as it is said*:
    wa'l adab az-zahiru li'l `iyani
    dalatu'l baTini fi'l insani
    fa'l qawmu bi'l aadabi haqqan saadu
    minhu'stafada'l qawmu ma'stafadu

    the external etiquette and decency you can observe
    is an indication of what is inside the man
    leadership comes usually to those with civility and virtue
    and the nation benefits from such a person

    *shaykh as-sarqusti in mabaHith al-asliyyah as quoted by ibn `ajibah in his sharH al-Hikam.

    it is in Hikam that sayyidi ibn `aTaAllah says [hastily translated]:

    How can a heart be illuminated [with faith and gnosis] when its mirror is plastered with figurines, idols of the mundane world? How can one travel towards Allah when he is utterly fettered by his desires? How can one desire to enter in the Hallowed Presence of Allah whilst he has not cleansed himself from the impurity of heedlessness and neglect? Or how can he hope to comprehend the subtleties and the Deep Secrets [in this path] while he has not yet repented from his errors, his sins?

    to Allah we belong and to Him we return.
  11. ok i am going to send these verses to a scholar and ask him for his opinion on them. watch this space. insha Allah.
  12. you are obviously spoiling for a fight sidi so i am not going to take this further except to say i have read ibn al farid's diwan and also the tarjuman al ashwaq--(both in translation) in fact they are my amongst my favourite books. i reckon if you didn't know who the authors were and just saw the verses you'd find them problematic/blasphemous too!!

    'kawthar ko chote se paymana mein rakh dena' -- pour the whole of the kawthar into a flask' -- this verse is thematically linked to the line i put in quotes earlier. even by itself i fail to see how it is insulting to our beloved Rasool صلى الله عليه وسلم unless you take the flask to be a literal wineglass and not metaphor.

    about the deos: what they wrote was not poetry but prose and it didn't have room--nor do they claim--that it was meant to be metaphorical. i'm sure if their words could have had any possible figurative meaning ala hazrat would have withheld his fatwa.

    finally aziz mian never said and nor did i that he WAS a sufi. he is only a qawwal who sang sufi poetry. big difference.

    wa alaykum as-salam.
  13. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    it is not with ease, it is bleedingly obvious. moreover, we did not accuse HIM of apostacy, we said his speech was riddah. before you dismiss others condescendingly, gain a bit of comprehension yourself.

    as brother noori said, what a proof! notice that you base your fallacious argument on a false premiss that we fatwa'ed him. where?

    i hate to be saying this, but what makes you think that others do not understand poetry or figures of speech? this so-called sufi poetry will appear crass for someone who has the great fortune of reading ibn al-fariD or tarjuman al-ashwaq or the myriad lines in ibn `aTaAllah's books or having read rumi or even iqbal.

    go read alaHazrat's book 'masayil e sama'a' [if you can] or do you accuse alaHazrat as well of not being able to understand a metaphor?

    i have absolutely no respect or regard for anyone claiming sufism who is not adherent to sharia'ah in matters of Halal and Haram and particularly who is not a scholar at all. [another book you may probably benefit from: alaHazrat's shariat aur Tariqat] however, some people who are scholars and follow shariah generally, but also commit some acts which appear to contradict the shariah; we give these scholars the benefit of doubt and say, it is kalam of sufis which we do not understand.

    professional singers accompanied by young fellows who clap like eunuchs and their performance should not be confused with aberrations of sufis.

    doctors wear gloves while examining a patient to both protect themselves and to avoid infecting the patient. this is a tool that helps the doctor in his/her practice and makes one admire their sense of hygeine. an illiterate tramp who hasn't washed for an year does not become a doctor by wearing clean gloves. [what if the gloves are dirty too?]

    sama'a of the sufis is a small part - often debated - that is meant to aid them in their worship; it is not worship itself. their worship is zikr and zuhd; prayer and fasting; their worship is withdrawing from the world and weeping in fear of Allah. not bleating like donkeys and making plenty of money from the whole affair.

    by Allah! it is Haram to make money by reciting the qur'an, how can it be permissible for singing lousy poems?

    it is not the only or the worst line, you have a problem with reading - the worst line mentioned here was that about kawthar. it is utterly hypocritical to lynch deobandis because they committed insult to RasulAllah sallallahu `alayhi wa sallam but still find excuses for a fasiq mu`ulin and cheap poetry.
  14. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    if, for arguments sake, one agrees with this, then the next issue is of whether it should be recited for the lay public. and i believe the scholars do not permit this. it will certainly confuse them, illa masha' Allah.

    that is the reason why we are advised to only listen to na'ats that are written by 'ulama of ahlu's sunnah. alaHazrat himself advised people to listen to the na'ats of his brother mawlana hasan raza and another poet whose name i have forgotten. alaHazrat said their poetry is according to the shari'ah.

    remember, most of the people who listen to such qawwals do not have the faintest idea of the shari'ah. this will only cause them to be further drowned in ignorance.

    and Allah knows best.
  15. it is not my business to ask for fatwas on him. but if a unanimous fatwa came from the places you mention all condemning him then i would not defend him. but i don't think we'll get this unanimity.

    yes i know about the naat-with-no-zikr fatwa and think it is a good idea. this thread was about qawwali. and qawwali is something which THERE IS DIFFERENCE OF OPININON ON.
  16. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    brother asif! have you asked any mufti for a fatwa?

    okay what if fatwa is issued from baraili sharif, kachocha shrif, marhara sharif or ulama from pakistan? will you accept it, or still be defending aziz mian?

    let alone these qawwalis, do you know that ulama from marhara sharif, baraili sharif, and from pakistan including dawat-e-islami ameer molana Ilyaas Qaddri (may Allah save him) have clearly denounced background dhikr in naat sharif?

    i doubt that even if you see a fatwa of contemporary scholars, you would still be defending these fussaq by rejecting ualam, and following your whims.
    Last edited: May 19, 2007
  17. also about the sabri bro. vs. aziz mian (vs. nfak) --it was all probably professional rivalry. all 3 have songs which contain verses which, if taken literally, encourage drinking but at the end all 3 explain what this 'wine' they've been promoting is.

    sidi aH if you'd listened to all of the qawwali (main sharaabi) you'd have seen it was the 'following wine which he says he is singing about:
    i am frightened by the ease with which people accuse other sunni muslims of apostasy on this forum...that used to be a trademark of You Know Who...

    aziz mian was well known, along with his work, in both india and pakistan (especially); don't u think some scholar would've fatwa'ed him by now if they found his work blasphemous?
    Last edited: May 19, 2007
  18. oh btw he passed away a few years ago. may Allah give him a place in jannah and forgive him his sins. amin!

    sidi calltoallah,

    the last verse you quote is him saying that he is a lover of Allah therefore whatever Allah decrees for him--i.e. heaven or hell--he will be happy as a lover always wants what pleases their Beloved.
  19. sidi aH

    not defending fisq or anything like that but don't you think that sidi faqir has a point about it all being metaphorical?. and in almost every qawwali by the time he finishes it he explains through his poetry what this 'wine' he is promoting is. it is always the gnosis of Allah he is talking about.

    about the verse, 'shaayad mujhe jannat ki havaa raas na aaye' [perhaps the air in paradise won't be to my liking] which you are so incensed by, isn't it a way of saying, look I don't want jannat it is only Allah's love that I want where the maikadah is a metaphor --as it usually is in sufi poetry--of the khanaqah or the place where one meets one's shaykh.
  20. faqir

    faqir Veteran

    i dont think his poetry is to be taken at face value ... it seems to be highly metaphorical

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