'Barelwi' Tawheed Seminar

Discussion in 'Events' started by T-Khan, Mar 7, 2022.

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  1. T-Khan

    T-Khan New Member

    This thread went on a tangent

    Seems as though a lot of you on here were pro-100th Urs e Alahazrat but are not pro-Tawheed seminar
  2. Surati

    Surati Well-Known Member

    who said remove naat completely?
  3. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    Those that don't attend anyway, we can't help much.

    But those that do, even they don't know much. Why? Because the speeches they've heard don't have much from basic aqidah in there.

    So the content of speeches needs to change. If the delivery is good, people will listen.
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  4. Hanafi Sunni

    Hanafi Sunni Veteran

    it all boils down to interest (shawq) of a person. our sunnis arent interested in acquiring 'ilm. Ulama are treated poorly throughout the world by members of governing body of musjid and such behavior impacts the mindset of the public.

    listening to bayaans on great awliyah can be really inspiring for e.g the incident of Hazrat Bishr al-Hafi and his sincere repentance.

    if you try to teach aqeeda in jummah bayaans. people wont be interested. secondly if the awaam does not note these down, they will forget as soon as they walk out of musjid.

    a better proposal would be to upgrade the syllabus of Madrassahs and Darul Ulooms.

    the moment something is suggested some brothers want to first bring out naaths. Naaths are an amazing way to increase the love of Rasoolullah sallalahu Alayhi wassallam. so many people have changed after listening to naaths (they try to read more durood, grow a beard, adopt muslim attire i've seen this with my own eyes). aqeeeda is also taught in many naaths.
    so please when suggesting ideas to better the state of muslims, dont point out towards naaths firsthand (the naaths that are done within boundaries of shariah).

    lets remove naaths completely out of the equation. will this magically better the state of the sunnis? i mentioned all this as some brother pointed out online gathering on twitter spaces.

    sunnis need to work hard towards ensuring they learn deen as it is fard upon us. one cannot force this upon another.
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2022
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  5. Hanafi Sunni

    Hanafi Sunni Veteran

    Huzoor Tajush Shariah states, bayans people forget easily. one should adopt the suhbat of ulama and learn aqeeda from them. listen to this beautiful message.
    IslamIsTheTruth likes this.
  6. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    you are right, but again, the majority comes to masjid when only 5 minutes remain to khutbah; however, we should/must try to teach those who attend.
  7. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    What percentage of a locality attend the monthly gyarhwin sharif? Probably ranges from 1-10% and the top end is being very generous.

    But what percentage attends jumuah? Maybe over 50%.

    So if a jumuah speech is 30 mins, we should use 10 mins of it for teaching basic aqidah.
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  8. Khanah

    Khanah Veteran

    You're right that people don't like learning- that's why you have to educate them in bayaans, etc. If an urs is held, everything can be as normal- just spend an hour somewhere going through a basic book in the middle of the event. If people usually come late (so as to join prior to eating food), then leave it right to the end and food is served afterwards. If the public ignore you, at least the obligation to teach has been fulfilled.

    I would suggest scholars also use the time to make the public aware of just how ignorant they are. People don't actually realise they don't know tajweed, don't know how to do ghusl, etc- the issue is they think they know everything. Just a few lines in the middle of a programme or bayaan: 'half the people in here don't even know how to pray- think to yourself, do you even know what is sunnah muakkadah and sunnah ghayr muakkadah and what the differences between the two are in prayer?' or dispel a popular misconception to show the audience that they're ignorant, etc. Can't solve the problem when most people you meet don't realise the problem exists- why would they want to come and study fiqh of prayer when they think they pray perfectly?

    Whereas if you hold fiqh of hajj courses, people know they are ignorant and turn up (at least those intending to perform hajj in the near future).

    We have to think outside the box. For example, events during muharram should not only have a focus on the history of the event, but aqeedah differences between us and the shia. A good way to teach aqeedah is through contrasting with other groups e.g. they believe x, we believe y.
    Unbeknown likes this.
  9. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    organizing a conference under the title of Tawhid in order to dispel the notion that ahlussunah do not care about tawhid is really not a good idea, show me an example from our elders.

    Instead, we should change the format of our gatherings to teach aqidah, tafsir, hadith, usul al hadith, fiqh, etc properly, not just the defense of mawlid, and other supererogatory practices, karamat of the sahib e urs, and finally the most interesting part - biryani.

    however, there are some issues that ulama cannot be blamed for, for example;

    (i) people usually come very late to gatherings, almost 70% of people join a gathering when only 30% of the time is left

    (ii) the majority of common folks are not interested in learning in an academic manner. if an alim starts explaining the usul, the nitty-gritty of fiqh, tafsir, hadith, and aqidah, then soon you see people yawning. you will hear roars of wah wah, subhanAllah if he talks about fazail, more thawab in few minutes, the guarantee of jannah. but if he goes more than 10 minutes explaining fiqh masail, you will see people changing their sides :)

    (iii) for many people the priority is mainly food. honestly speaking just minus the food and see how many people will attend. this is a common attitude among people of all colors, regardless they are sunni, deobandi, wahabi, I've seen deobandi gatherings running just because of biryani, etc,).

    (iii) If you hand out a small risalah (20-page max), only a few people will extend their hand to take it, and even less will read it actually.

    (iv) majority tend to spend time on social media and like to watch short videos, but they don't want to sit with a scholar to learn deen, or even take a full or short-duration online course.

    (v) people want to learn everything only in a few minutes, so 5 minutes video of a heretic entices them, but a 30 minutes talk filled with the explanations of usul and true knowledge is too long to avoid mostly.

    (vi) people have become more judges than learners, they want to try and listen to everyone, compare different thoughts, and then make a decision on their own even if they don't know the basics, for example, the definition of hadith, and its categories, makruh tehrimi or tanzihi etc.

    (vii) people like to hear and spend more time on polemics, I have come across many educated people who do not bother to read books, or gain proper knowledge, but they spend a lot of time proving to their friends, coworkers very enthusiastically what they believe in or know (not necessarily correct), and since they don't have answers they forward to you videos to get an answer, so that they can forward it back to the opponent and win the debate.

    most of it is my personal observation, you may disagree.
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  10. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    they are incapable to do it, by definition.

    however, the point i believe the brothers are making is not that they teach Tawhid, but rather that they teach their manhaj

    the average wahabi or devbandi is much more well versed in his manhaj than the average Barelwi is fluent in his manhaj and this is squarely our ulama's fault for focusing only on urs, naatkhwani, etc.

    DI is doing great work on teaching people basics of reciting Quran, fiqh of ebadaat and so on. i'm out of touch with them for some time now, so don't know if they have basic courses for awam in proper Sunni aqaid like the Sanusiyah and so on.

    however the yaume [great shakhsiyat] is a great way to teach seerah of akabireen, with a focus on contextualizing it and addressing modern issues

    yes, but we need direct courses on aqidah and manhaj too

    yes and this should be coupled with refutations of the local attacks on Islam in that area - like feminism, lgbt, hijab bans, obstacles on religious education, etc.; as well as current affairs and attacks on Islam and Muslims in general - so that people develop a ghayrah for the deen and millah; we need Muslims to have the correct aqidah as well as think like "right wing Muslims" if you know what i mean. the interest in manhaj and knowledge can't be sustained for long without developing loyalty and ghayrah for deen and ummah

    dunno which post and when, but i've ranted a lot on this forum
  11. Abū Dharr

    Abū Dharr New Member

    the ahbash are very effective at teaching madhabi fiqh and ashari aqeeda . their laymen is aware of the actual aqeeda differences between us and Wahabis regarding Sifaat. Many laymen Barelvis actually have Wahabi beliefs regarding sifaat like for example believing God is over the throne due to misunderstanding regarding miraaj etc .
  12. T-Khan

    T-Khan New Member


    This is what I propose - maybe even some notes to take home with them after the event

    Have X number of speakers with a set topic

    Speak for X amount of time

    Upload each video with it's specific title
  13. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    The way to teach aqidah is by teaching books like Shaykh Asrar did the Sanusiyyah.

    Durus are the way forward rather than fiery speeches, where, in 30 mins, a speaker may only make a few points to note. Just time filling mostly.

    Someone mentioned Imam Adil's ongoing tour. That's a good way. Structured learning.

    Every masjid should have evening and weekend classes for young and old that teach fard ayn. This is why I love Dawat e Islami.

    Most Sunnis can't read the Quran properly. We need to look at priorities.

    Work at grassroots. Cater for your own local area and undertake what is within your means.

    We do need conferences every now and then, where talks are on very specific topics and also to disseminate ideas to Sunnis.
    Tolu Miyan and Mubashar Luqman like this.
  14. Tolu Miyan

    Tolu Miyan New Member

    Recently a local masjid started an aqeeda course (first of its kind in the city) and the turn-out was great, it shows that sunnis esp youth are interested
    AbdalQadir and Mubashar Luqman like this.
  15. Mubashar Luqman

    Mubashar Luqman New Member

    Good idea, but you have to understand that most people who use twitter aren't on there to study the deen, people tune into the spaces just to listen in as they have nothing better to do , suggesting that is replaced with a reading of a book will have hardly any benefit, that's what I assume anyway, but there's no harm in giving it a go.

  16. Surati

    Surati Well-Known Member

    @Mubashar Luqman I’m obviously not asking him to organise a whole “seminar” but rather suggesting that he makes intelligent use of Spaces and the time on there; he should do something he can manage within the remit of Twitter Spaces with the capacity he has. People are sitting there for hours listening to naat - excellent, but how is that changing the status quo? It’s just repeating the same cycle and we keep complaining about people not knowing basic Fard ayn.

    For example, the reading of naat you mentioned could be replaced by the reading from an Aqida book (maybe 20 mins) - start with Sh Asrar’s book or Mawlana AH’s recent book OR could be a teaching of 30 mins basic Aqida weekly from a scholar if that can be done.

    As for TK’s encouraging people to share what they have read, a good initiative. Maybe he should start a bookclub too and encourage reflections.
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2022
  17. Mubashar Luqman

    Mubashar Luqman New Member

    Seems like this is is what Mawlana Adil Shazad sb has been doing, touring the country to teach basic aqeedah and from the looks of it from his social media posts it looks like he's had a good turn out. FB_IMG_1644840139195.jpg FB_IMG_1644840139195.jpg FB_IMG_1644840139195.jpg FB_IMG_1644840139195.jpg

    Hassan_0123 likes this.
  18. Mubashar Luqman

    Mubashar Luqman New Member

    If you go through brother T-Khans feed you'd know that every Friday he encourages people to share passages from books they have read that week what they find beneficial.

  19. Mubashar Luqman

    Mubashar Luqman New Member

    With all due respect janaab, you can't compare the two, ones a virtual space which has naats and beneficial speeches and reminders which doesn't take much effort organising compared to organising a seminar with Ulema e Ikram from up and down the country

  20. Surati

    Surati Well-Known Member

    AQ has a good post about this somewhere on this forum @AbdalQadir

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