Book Release : The Killer Mistake -A critique of Nuh Keller's "Iman, Kufr and Takfir"

Discussion in 'Ridawi Press' started by Khanah, Sep 30, 2021.

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  1. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    No, it is not. Do you know why?

    Dil-e-Àādā ko raza tayz namk ki dhun hay
    Ghulam Ali likes this.
  2. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    abu Hasan has done a superlative job. his ability to present information via tables, charts, infographics etc. is extremely useful and makes it easy to digest and understand.

    it was said Alahazrat was hasty in takfir - the table on p.86 tears this fallacy from the roots.

    it was said muhannad is an answer to husam al-haramayn [don't know whether to laugh or cry] - the table on p.151 shatters this myth. if anyone presents muhannad ever again to defend their 'akabirin' after seeing this table, then does shamelessness have any bounds?

    his analysis of the deobandi belief about ilm al-ghayb is truly implicating, i.e. the argument was never about the extent of knowledge, it was that the deobandis totally denied ilm al-ghayb for rasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam.

    this book is a notable addition to the list of refutations of deobandi passages. usually, books tend to get translated from urdu to english but this is a rare case where this needs to be in urdu so that the whole of the subcontinent can see the overwhelming evidence that supports the stance that Alahazrat adopted.

    i also want to mention qadi iyad, imam subki, imam ghazzali, even ibn taymiyyah, imam haytami et al - that they showed what the honour of rasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam means.

    i see this book as the final nail in the deobandi coffin. any unbiased reader will certainly send damnation upon the passages that thanwi et al wrote and defended.
  3. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    @Noori (post 20)

    of course brother, i mean that i am done skimming and now reading properly.

    as for the abominable kellerian principle, which he pulled out of thin air, what i mean is that it should be LITERALLY made to stand out in multiple places, and it should be stated very clearly that it has no foundation in the shari3ah and is keller's own concoction!

    see this article for example by mark hanson (pages 3 and 10, of 21, for example) where he mentions key heretical bullet points in all caps, larger font, like adverts

    furthermore, i think there should be a separate 1-2 page executive summary of the book written by one of the readers and not the people who contributed to it (abu Hasan, Aqdas, et al) that should summarize the book well and challenge and stimulate any disillusioned mureeds of keller.

    as for the cult leaders and members,

    سَوَاءٌ عَلَيْهِمْ أَأَنذَرْتَهُمْ أَمْ لَمْ تُنذِرْهُمْ
  4. sherkhan

    sherkhan Veteran

    Definitely a very profound subject. The book elucidates all difficult concepts and legal precepts but it's still not an easy reading for beginners (but is more suited for intermediate level).
  5. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    the point is that will keller or his worshipers bother to read it? whether their ignorgance, teaching without reading, giving fatwa on mere heresy, and slandering elder sunni scholars to get recognition among juhala will continue or true sufism will shine by admitting mistakes and blunders.

    i really wish if keller demonstrate even an iota of sufism he preaches to others.

    is it not fair that we only request him and his murids to read and listen to sunni responses? if they don't then it is a clear evidence against him that his agenda was something else rather than finding a resolution of the conflict; and there was no honesty behind his IKT, and whatever he said in the article was (f)actually a mirror of his own shortcomings.
  6. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    sorry bother AQ, this book is not just to skim through, it should be read from start to finish. make your suggestions when you finish the book, and the killer kellerian principle has been dealt at many places in the book.
  7. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    pg 55 of pdf
    Please include the words of the Ansar, I think you missed. Please also include a commentary of the hadith.


    pg 65 of pdf

    This is pure gold and must be highlighted much more visibly, and in multiple places, so that even skimmers can't miss it
  8. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    my point. add that explanation to the appendices or in the relevant section under a separate heading - if not already done so. sure you worded your sentence beautifully, but the unintelligent need it detailed out for them.
  9. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    alahazrat has explained it already in tamhid e eeman
  10. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    Pg 16 of pdf file:
    This needs another appendix to explain properly and in depth that what is referred to here is the 1 POSSIBLE CORRECT interpretation of an AMBIGUOUS saying or action, and not the fallacious understanding of keller and his murids that if someone commits 99 acts of blatant kufr and 1 act of Islam, we rule him a Muslim!

    Sorry & ignore this msg if that is already done in the book. I am done skimming, and now combing the book in depth.
  11. Wadood

    Wadood Veteran

    the shari'i rulings that have been detailed in this book right at the beginning for the blasphemer, and the apostate, 99% of the mureeds of keller, hanson and team are not aware of them. Keller and hanson have kept their mureeds ignorant of them even during the cartoon controversy and the hassoun case.

    This is very welcoming in this book, that Shaykh Abu Hasan has done this right at the beginning. The message of enormity of blasphemy and apostasy must be dug into the minds of these self-made, at ease mureeds, and the general muslim populace in the West, who think of false forgiveness otherwise.

    The real matter is that of blasphemy. Even deobandis in the west have kept their mureeds ignorant of the shari'i rulings that have been detailed in this book
  12. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    minor update

    a few minor corrections - typos etc. and a few words have been replaced for a mot juste. and a few sentences have been reworded for clarity.

    feel free to download the updated version or continue with the same.
  13. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    please only discuss the book in this thread. use the other thread for things like other sites deleting links to the book etc.
  14. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    May I ask why the transcripts of the conversations or communications between keller and Shaykhs Asrar and Jameel were not included in the book?

    Is it because of keller's paranoia and his disingenuous copyright laws? His suhbas forbid all sorts of recordings or reproductions by the murids; afaik, he doesn't entertain written communication either from people of integrity and most probably will not issue any written response. No murid is allowed to discuss outside of the suhba what he heard inside.

    I think even if keller wishes to abuse copyrights, the queries or responses by the Sunni shuyukh should have been transcribed. It would have added and cemented on the exposition of keller.
  15. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    any unbiased person who will read both IKT of keller and TKM of sidi Abu Hasan, as well as other previous responses, will easily realize what keller really is, those who think that he is infallible like prophets or they worship him will never dare to open the book.

    This will be a very idiotic and arrogant response from keller if he refuses to read or respond to it, because, then on what grounds he thinks that people should read his works and avoid those who have shown his incompetency in islamic sciences, and his reliance on his deobandi murids?

    let's see if keller hides behind his sham shame of tasawwuf, or responds in an scholarly and sufi manner who care for their own iman and of their followers'.
  16. Wadood

    Wadood Veteran

    i would like any example from modern deobandis and their admirers like faraz rabbani and hamza karamali that shows that they come from rigorous scholarly backgrounds.

    Look at this work of Shaykh Abu Hasan, and you will see sunni scholarship. Obviously the teachers of such a student must be reckoned with.

    hamza karamali is a made up jahil

    deobandi students are incompetent, riya is their disease
  17. Wadood

    Wadood Veteran

    One reason Keller brushed aside AlaHazrat and gave consideration to deobandi wahabis is that in his environs in Toronto and Chicago, the vast majority of the mureeds are either deobandi influenced, deobandi themselves, or come from mosques dominated by deobandis, or come from a sub continent background, and keller is of the opinion that deobandis are to be sided with because they are the most vocal and the most influential locally and internationally in the West, with the success rate in North America. It is touching base with one's supposed mureed camp. But obviously, he is a jahil even about demographics.

    please don't take this as personally attacking keller, but if you attend his circles, you would know what i am talking about

    The Shar 'I ruling that Shaykh Abu Hasan has detailed in this work, you cannot find them on seekersdguidance. Because it is just too gory for the faqih of this times "shaykh" faraz rabbani. You will not find them on Habib Ali 's website or on the website of Hanson and team ever.

    99% of keller mureeds ARE NOT AWARE OF THEM
  18. Wadood

    Wadood Veteran

    The book's title is appropriate. The Palestine-Israel analogy is very valid.

    Yes keller's purpose really was to trivialise the issue. This is the same purpose of Habib Ali in Hassoun's case. This is also the attitude of Mark Hanson, Rickey Mitchell (Zaid Shakir), Abdulla hamid ali, Sherman Jackson, and the entire tabah institute team in the united arab emirates [ in the case of the cartoons ]

    i am calling it purpose because of experience with their students over the years, and themselves
  19. harun

    harun Active Member

    MashaAllah, an excellent paper, Allahumma Zid Fazid!

    The paper puts an end to the befuddled Kellerian theories which was opening doors for blasphemers to state what they want under the pretext of ‘The Enormity of Charging a Muslim with Unbelief’ as understood by ‘Kellerian principles’.

    Indeed, Allah ta’ala defends the Deen and the honor and status of His Beloved صلي الله عليه و سلم

    'Those familiar with testimony in court know how frequently even well-intentioned eyewitnesses contradict each other and, upon cross-examination, themselves. In the world in which we live, not everyone is well-intentioned, especially towards those who are envied for their accomplishments or possessions. “Spin,” the new polite phrase for lying innuendo, is a fact of media politics. Reporters sometimes get things wrong, eliminate nuances that indicate the context, or misunderstand the person they interview to improve the story line or reader interest, or to make things “fit” with received ideas. Love and hate still sell news. Daily printing deadlines by their very nature often prevent a thorough checking of facts. If we think about it, much of our everyday knowledge is acquired with considerably less than the verification demanded by Islam. When we hear something, or read it from a single source, we tend to accept such knowledge because it usually works'

    Keller must have been talking about himself in the above paragraph or was the plot deeper as Iqbal said

    'Fikr e ‘arab ko de ke farangi takhayyulat,
    Islam ko Hijaz o Yemen se nikal do,
    Woh faqah kash ke mawt se darta nahin dhara,
    Ruh e Muhammadi صلي الله عليه و سلم uske badan se nikal do'
  20. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    all i can say [for the time being!] is that such a work is something only mawlana abu Hasan ridawi can manage. it takes an extremely sharp mind to decipher the sleight of hand present in keller's article.

    keller nearly got away with it...nearly.

    i urge everyone, sunni or not, to read this book cover to cover. it is unbelievably good.

    likhne waale to bahot haiN lekin
    abu'l Hasan ka andaaz niraala hai

    the lion of raza: abu Hasan

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