fakeerkhan rant

Discussion in 'Bickering' started by SuleimanalMuslim, Sep 24, 2010.

Draft saved Draft deleted
  1. hayaa

    hayaa Guest

    This thread is all over the place and a mess like every other.

    Br. Faqeerkhan has made some observations above and they do look very true. Just visit a college now and then again in 3 years time and you'll find more irreligious ppl. The ppl who remain religious are all from other sects. New nonSunni masjids and madrasas open everywhere. Sorry to say but its like the so-called Sunnis don't care or have gone blind. I've even heard some of them make up issues against other Sunnis to protect their money income but it might be heresay. Sometime truth hurts.
  2. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    i know what angioplasty is and i don't need to prove it to you that i knew it. i have researched this "treatment" on the net long ago and even explained it to others. sure, i am not a doctor; but i regularly read medline and other medical journals on the net. (and now correct me that medline is not a journal; it is a medical encyclopedia...go ahead).

    the reason why i had to respond to this, is to show, how easy it is to make errors in writing and how easy it is to misinterpret and misrepresent it.

    what i had written initially was, "after blocked arteries and angioplasty" because i had written anecdotes of some relatives, including one who had lung cancer. prior to posting, i decided not to write about them and merged this phrase with the previous sentence.

    sometimes, due to cognitive dissonance, we don't see the obvious and silly mistakes we make.

    why am i writing this clarification? i could have ignored this, like the many errors i have made earlier and corrected without the need to explain why it happened in the first place. but i have a point to make:

    some people read a poorly worded sentence in books of kalam and claim that the authors sided with a corrupt aqidah. even if the same authors in the same books (or elsewhere) have stated their own opinion in dozens of places contrary to this ambiguous sentence, these short-sighted people see only this ambiguious statement and are adamant that the writer of that particularly contentious passage/sentence really believed in that error or that they passionately espoused this issue.

    a drowning man will clutch at a floating woodchip imagining that it will save him. unfortunately these drowning people refuse the help of those in huge ships, claiming that they will reach the shore hanging on to this woodchip.

    al-iyadhu billah.
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2010
  3. Wadood

    Wadood Veteran

    ibn arabi is nitpicking. you cannot just run around and pull things out to prove idiocy

    blocked arteries is the ailment, and angioplasty the tiring treatment, especially psychologically.
  4. Ibn Arabi

    Ibn Arabi Banned

    You don't "suffer" from angioplasty, nor is it an "ailment". It is a treatment.
  5. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    the harm of smoking is documented and well-known. it is the leading cause of lung cancer; one of the main causes of mouth cancer. a major factor contributing to heart disease.

    this causes direct injury and not something which merely has the potential to lead to injury.

    eating lots of masala and drinking lots of coke will not give you cancer. smoking is addictive but drinking coke is not. you may find some who are addicted to carbonated drinks, but that is generally not the case. many people start smoking as a fad and just because it is 'hip' and 'cool' (usually when they are young) and thereafter get hooked to it.

    it is because of these reasons, smoking should be banned outright and ruled as Haram. i used to feel strongly even in the past, but withheld because the fuqaha had ruled it makruh; but i read a book by an eminent shaykh and that has caused me to lean towards the present viewpoint.

    i have seen relatives who have suffered from lung cancer, blocked arteries and angioplasty and dozens of ailments - all linked to smoking. it is one way to discourage smoking in the newer generation, just like nabiz - where fatwa is given according to imam muHammad's opinion.

    smokers are generally selfish (about smoking) and are thinking only about themselves - they get restless, irritable and at times abusive when they haven't had a smoke for some time. they do not care if you have an allergy or something and will blissfully blow smoke in your face. some idiots do not even have the courtesy to not smoke or stop smoking when children or pregnant women are around...or if someone is fasting. other morons will smoke in closed spaces like lifts and even in entrances to hospitals and clinics.

    Allah ta'ala knows best.
  6. chisti-raza

    chisti-raza Veteran

    at this moment in time, I'm of the view that it is prohibitively disliked and abhorred. I'm not closed on this though:)
  7. chisti-raza

    chisti-raza Veteran

    there are alot of issues that can come out of blanket prohibition.

    Do the earnings of those who sell this now become haram?
    A person is in the state of wudhu, he smokes and performs his salah. Is his salah valid or will this (if it is haram) now invalidate his salah?
    A good number of imams (of masjids) do this, what now of the congregations?

    I don't smoke nor do I allow it in my home and I was of the view that it was haram (absolute prohibition) but not anymore. I feel that there are just too many variables attached to it for absolute prohibition (haram).
  8. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    I meant to say that they are not comprehensive. but that video Abu Hasan posted was a heartbreak.
  9. SA01

    SA01 Veteran

    Gosh.......all this is getting very interesting but also quite confusing. Please keep the discussion going learned people, as I would clearly like an answer, as many others would I am sure :)
  10. chisti-raza

    chisti-raza Veteran

    you are passionately anti-tobacco:)

    ok, to understand you correctly, the ruling of excessive eating being declared haram would be conditional.

    your answer is logical for the reason of it being makruh (if that was the reason) and now that new evidence has come to light the ruling should be reviewed.

    Can we get this into a new thread please?
  11. Sorry, I didn't mean that in an absolute manner (Mutalaqan). Rather, Sidi AbdalQadir said that it was proven to be harmful and questioned whether I would apply the principle mentioned. Therefore I said that if it is proven to be harmful and one is certain of this, it is Haram.

    I think it was Makruh in the first place since it was likened to eating raw garlic, i.e. it left a bad odour in ones mouth. The ruling for the latter was Makruh, so smoking was thought to be the same. However, when looking at the new evidence, the smell is one of your least worries :)
  12. chisti-raza

    chisti-raza Veteran

    Sorry but I have to ask. So, when will excessive food consumption be haram (is this a blanket prohibition)? Who will it be haram for and who will it be halal for?

    As for this specific ruling changing with time [i don't deny that rulings do change with time], can someone please explain to me the reason for it being declared makruh in the first place? What were the reasons for it being makruh?

    This is an interesting topic to discuss. Can the mods please move this into its own thread?
  13. One of my teachers said that if such things e.g. excessive food consumption harms ones body, and is proven, then it will be Haram. Eating and Drinking have different Ahkam depending on your situation. It is Fard when one is starving, Haram when clearly harmful etc
  14. Just because Wahhabis say something, does not mean it is Batil.
  15. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    the mutlaqan blanket haram fatwa is given by impulsive wahabis ... as far as i know the Sunni's fatwa is makruh (not sure about tanzihi or tahrimi) and that too isn't for the one off or two off occasional smoking, it is haram only for people for whom the harm is certified, like a heart patient or an asthmatic

    the "whatever harms" and "its harms have been proven" reasoning can't be applied so simplistically... otherwise it would apply to all cheeseburger addicts, all coke addicts (the drink in the red can), pretty much all of us exorbitantly large amounts of red chilli powder and garam masala consuming desis, pretty much all of us samosa and pakoda munching desis, half the Muslim world which eats sweets and halwas by the kilo in one sitting, not to mention our exorbitant consumption of desi ghee

    btw, they have done studies in Lahore in regards to excessive chilli and masala consumption, and while it may not cause cancer, it renders many folk unable to conceive and susceptible to ulcers, amongst other disorders

    this issue isn't as black and white as the anti-smoking lobby would have you believe... that said, i'm not an advocate for promoting tobacco consumption either... that comment to faqeerkhan was in a figure of speech format
  16. Shukran Jazilan, Abu Hasan! Allahumma-rzuqna al-`Afw wal-`Afiyah!

    The link that I posted to is excellent - a Jumu`ah Khutbah of Habib Husayn on "Health and the Well-being of the Body" and it condemns those who smoke, drink, take drugs, wal-`Iyadhu Billahi Tabaraka wa Ta`ala.

    It surprises me that people take evidence from western scientists on a host of things from chemistry to psychology, yet they declare smoking Makruh.
  17. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    so it was.

    for those interested in principles of fiqh, this can serve as a good example of how rulings change with time. if someone asks me nowadays, i tell them that i believe it is haram to smoke.

    but as suleiman has noted, it should be ruled haram due to the proven ill-effects of smoking. moreover, the fuqaha who considered it makruh in the previous century were not aware of cigarettes and the immense harm.

    setting up a hookah and enjoying it once a while in the evening (as was the case with 13-14th century scholars) is not the same as walking chimneys who are turning their lives to ashes and dust.

    here is a video sampling the tar from 400 cigarettes can cause (a little over-the-top, but you get the idea). 10 cigarettes a day, or a pack-a-day would give you all that tar in just one year!

    Allah ta'ala knows best.
  18. The Hanafi position is it is makruh.
  19. Bismillah...

    As-Salamu `Alaykum wa Rahmatullah...

    Do you disgaree with the principle that what is certain to harm one is Haram?

    So what if it makes millions of Muslims sinners. Zina, Ghibah, Namimah and whatever else has the exact same effect.

    Listen to this: http://hemmah.net/Speeche.aspx?SectionID=2&RefID=510


Share This Page