fakeerkhan rant

Discussion in 'Bickering' started by SuleimanalMuslim, Sep 24, 2010.

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    CHISHTI Well-Known Member

    Which Sunni Aalim has given this fatwa?....this would now make millions and millions of Muslims throughout the world sinners.
  2. Bismillah...

    That was before the clear harms of it were not known and it was thought that it was simillar to eating raw garlic i.e. it simply gave you a bad odour. However, its harm is clear now, whetever is harms with little doubt is Haram.

  3. SA01

    SA01 Veteran

    Referring to smoking, I didn't know that it was categorically haram, rather makruh...no??
  4. With all due to respect, even in jest, do not call people to Haram.

    @Faqeer: At least mention Sayyid Muhammad Bin `Alawi with respect, as well as others.
  5. With apologies to Meer Taqi Meer:

    Faqeerana aaye, sadaa kar chalay
    Miyan khush raho, hum dua kar chalay!

  6. chisti-raza

    chisti-raza Veteran

  7. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    wooooaaahhh.... you're all over the place faqeerkhan!

    first things first... calm down... take a few deep breaths, have a coffee, smoke if you do, come back and tell us what EXACTLY bothers you. make a list in point form, if you have more than one concern... i thought you were only concerned about the issue of imkan-e-kidhb in the other thread

    but you've been jumping from allegations of accusations thrown at your person, to the Ghuniya, to intra-Barelvi politics and divisions, to subcontinental politics and differences of opinions, to hallucinations that somehow people here are making a trillion excuses for nuh keller ... I don't recall seeing any excuses being made for him

    you'd be happy to know that these guys don't make a trillion excuses for Sheikh Muhammad Alawi Maliki


    as for the Hyderabadi Sunni scholars, just like Sheikh Abu Adam of Sunnianswers, and plenty of Arab Shuyukh, their approach is to deal with principles of the Ahlus Sunnah without getting into personalities... that might not make them "Barelwi" per se according to you, and that might even be a fair call in a way... we consider them Sunnis as long as they adhere to the principles of the Ahlus Sunnah
  8. faqeerkhan

    faqeerkhan Guest

  9. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    i do not want to argue with you, but the reason why i said that you insulted sayyidi ghawth al-a'azam was not as mild as you are trying to project. i forget the exact phrase and that was when i took umbrage (even ruslan moore was upset); that, in spite of our friendship - and that is when we parted.

    there are many lies in your posts and accusations, and i won't bother to refute them - all i say is: peace.
  10. faqeerkhan

    faqeerkhan Guest

    I really feel sorry for you and your types. How bold for you and your self studied friend to accuse me of insulting Shaykh Abdul Qadir al-Jilani because I said his book Ghunya which contains Anti-Ashari (anti Maturidi) statements is not tampered. and your friend said it contains Anthropomorphic statement of Istawa bi-dhat, but he couldn't pass takfir on him.

    But let us see how bold you and your friend is

    read this from our shaykh Gibril Fouad Haddad

    Hanbali `Aqida of Shaykh `Abd al-Qadir
    Hanbali `Aqida of Shaykh `Abd al-Qadir

    Was Abdul Qadir Jilani (rahmatullahi alayhi) of the belief that Allah the exalted was literally in the sky? If so, was this a corrupt belief i.e., in contradistinction of Ahl Sunna wa Jama''? If so, could he have been a ''true'' wali?

    As-Salamu `alaykum:

    It is a poorly phrased question that ends with such a conditional sentence: "If so, could he have been a 'true' wali." If he were not, then who! Therefore, from the firm assumption that Shaykh `Abd al-Qadir al-Gilani was one of the great major Friends of Allah we can safely deduce that:

    [1] either the text in which he is related to say that Allah Most High is "above" (fawq) the heaven and the Throne "with his Essence" (bi-dhatihi) is a corrupt text;


    [2] our own understanding of what he actually meant is corrupt.

    The latter is probably more correct, since it is related that Shaykh `Abd al-Qadir said "bi-dhatihi" in more than one text and this is the literalist Hanbali stance he inherited from his School.

    Hence, we must categorically affirm that he meant it in an orthodox sense far away from anthropomorphism; namely, that Allah Most High is indeed "high above" with his Essence, not in the sense of altitude and location or direction, but in the sense of being exalted high above and beyond the characteristics of creatures.

    This is nothing new. It is the correct belief over which no two Muslims would have differed, except that shaytan fanned the flames of misunderstanding and dissension by focussing people on wordings and labels rather than meanings, splitting the ranks of the Muslims and then proceeding further to split the ranks of Ahl al-Sunna.

    Hence it is best, as our pious predecessors always cautioned, to stay away from hair-splitting discussions on points of doctrine and what they called "kalam" - theological discourse.



    Easy to do the takfir of those four deobandi scholars but when it comes to Nuh Keller or GF haddad or Muhammad Alawi Maliki you people have 1000000000000 excuses. the latest one is "trying to bring sunnis who have been confused or astray"

    you guys are a joke. translations are interpolations and sincerity and honesty is questioned ? teaching others about hypocrisy ? need to clean your own house first !

    Going further: who said that all sunnis are barelwis. no sir. they are many scholars from Hyderabad Deccan (sufi scholars) who didn't agree with Fazil e barelwi. it will be an eye opener...just wait...for the right time..

    Have you barelwis forgot the split between Dawate_islami and Sunni Dawate-Islami...

    May be you people need to read more and educate more about yourself before you write here, otherwise you just making a mockery of yourself.
  11. chisti-raza

    chisti-raza Veteran

    He expands further...

    From this hadith it becomes manifest that the good ‘Ulamā’ will continue coming until al-Qiyāmah and they will be the guardians of the Sharia and those with understanding of the religion.

    They will be firm on the Dīn and through their blessings, their true and loyal followers, which refer to the Ahl al-Sunnah wa’ al jama’ah, will also remain determined and unwavering on the Dīn.

    The clear sign of this is evident even from the said Hadith (quoted at the beginning) that there will be an abundance of Qurrā' and a shortage of Fuqahā'.

    It is lucidly mentioned that even though few, they will continue coming until al-Qiyāmah and the part wherein, there will be an abundance of Qurrā', is better understood by looking at what has been mentioned earlier, in other words there will definitely be an abundance of Qurrā', but they will not present the true and correct recitation of the Qur’ān and that is the way that was adopted by the Companions from the Prophet (Peace and blessings be upon him)
  12. chisti-raza

    chisti-raza Veteran

    Mufti Akhtar Rida further expands on this hadith in his marginal notes...

    This will however not be the condition of all the ‘Ulamā’. It has been mentioned in the Sahih al-Bukhari which is narrated by Amir Mu‘āwīya ibn ‘Abī Sufyān that the Holy Prophet (Peace and Blessings of Allah be upon him) said, “Whosoever Allah Wills to be generous towards, He blesses him with being a Faqīh – the one who has obtained an understanding of the religion- and I am the one who distributes and Allah is the One who Gives. One group in my Ummah will remain firmly on the Dīn of Allah until the command of Allah appears. Their opposition will not be able to cause them any harm.[ Sahih al-Bukhari, vol 1, page 61]
  13. chisti-raza

    chisti-raza Veteran

    What else can I put forward but this...

    Zayd ibn Arqam narrates from Mak-hool, who narrates from Alī ibn Abī Tālib that the Holy Prophet (Blessings and peace be upon him) said, “It is from the signs of the nearness of al-Qiyāmah, when you see people destroying ṣalawāt and harming that which is given to them in trust and they make major sins halāl and they take usury and bribes and they make their homes of solid materials and they follow their desires and they sell their Dīn in exchange for worldly expanse and they recite al-Qur’ān like a song , .....Continued to

    ...when children become the reason of anguish and the dishonest become wealthy leaders and the liars become advisors and the treacherous become leaders and the oppressors become law enforcers and the ‘Ulamā’ fold their hands on their chests and lower themselves before the wealthy and when there will be an abundance of Qurrā' and a shortage of Fuqahā' ... Continued to

    ... they will defy their mothers and distance themselves from their fathers and when agreements will be regarded as an inheritance and the latter people in the Ummah will slander the predecessors and a person will be respected for fear of his wayward conduct and there will be an abundance of soldiers and the ignorant will ascend the pulpits ... Continued to

    ... and there will be numerous khatībs on your pulpits and your ‘Ulamā’ will lower themselves before your custodians and they will say that which is harām, to be halāl for them, and they will command that which is halāl to be regarded as harām and they will give them fatāwā by means of their desires and your ‘Ulamā’ will attain knowledge so that they may gather the dirham and the dīnār of your wealthy leaders and you will make al-Qur’ān a business entity ... Continued to

    ... people will be uncomfortable, your thoughts will be otherwise, and pardon will be common amongst servants and those of low standing in community and measurements and weights will be lessened and the administrators of your affairs will be foolish ones. [Kanz al-Ummal fi sunan al-aqwal wa'l af`al, Vol 14, Pages 573-574] Reference: Al-Qiyāmah, the signs thereof by Shaykh Mufti Akhtar Rida al-Bareillwi

    CHISHTI Well-Known Member

    ....."quite strange that the "english speaking world" should be judge and jury over what is the truth of Islam or not

    even stranger is the fact that this comment comes from someone who [most probably] belongs to a group who pride themselves on being a pioneering part of the freedom struggle against the british raj!".....OUCH!! :)

    ..."the stance of iblis too shifted after 50,000 years of being a top notch scholar and worshiper"....ERR....DOUBLE OUCH!! :)
  15. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    you sadly, are a tadpole in the well, whose vision is limited to select few modern day English speaking convert "celebrity shuyukh" in the west, where Muslims are a minority.

    can't blame you much for it IS the age of the celebrity, after all, and celebrity shuyukh with their modern day 5-star Spanish riviera rihlas, and glossy CD packs, and streaming media lectures (calling people as "children of God") thumping the great 'murrican dream of tasawwuf must be quite enticing to most people, especially when their names turn up on search engine results every so often!

    if only you could take a swim into the real ocean of Islamic scholarship, and travel to Muslim lands and see the vast majority of real scholars (most of whom, I assure you, haven't as much as heard of these people), you would appreciate the true and genuine expanse and beauty of Sunni-ism (and I'm not even talking about the subcontinental ones here)

    dive deeper and you will see the extraordinary beauty and magnificence of masters like as-Suyuti and Ali al-Qari and al-Busiri and others, and when you see that, you might as well end up seeing the validity of Fazil-e-Barelwi's stances ... and by dive I mean - DIVE, not just superficially discuss the Burdah and the Masnawi over a cup of tea at a rihla program somewhere like a pretentious orientalist, or some cursory readings on an internet blog by some "sidi"

    or you could stay comfy in the safe confines of your celebrity well.

    "Barelwi" is only a name for Ahlus Sunnah in the subcontinent. Sheikh Yaqoubi is Sunni as long as he adheres to the principles of the Ahlus Sunnah, which he does.

    As for what he thinks of deobandis (or Barelwis for that matter), that's a different debate in regards to history and personalities and who said what and when and where and who lied how and to whom!

    did Ibrahim 'alaihis salam have a majority vote on his side? what about the people who boarded the ark of Nuh 'alaihis salam? How many people got to escape with Lut 'alaihis salam from the ill-fated town?

    are numbers the criterion for deciding on what the truth is or not?

    if that's the case, Muslims as a whole are a minority. the largest single religion by numbers is roman catholicism. if you count it by Islam vs kufr/shirk, then Muslims are most definitely a minority.

    if number of followers is your criterion for validity of beliefs, that conversion is long overdue matey!

    quite strange that the "english speaking world" should be judge and jury over what is the truth of Islam or not

    even stranger is the fact that this comment comes from someone who [most probably] belongs to a group who pride themselves on being a pioneering part of the freedom struggle against the british raj!

    the stance of iblis too shifted after 50,000 years of being a top notch scholar and worshiper

    and isn't nuh keller or anyone else too human? any non-Prophet is prone to error;

    which brings us back to the original point: ANY JUDGEMENT SHOULD BE IN LIGHT OF THE SHARIA AND THE PRINCIPLES OF DEEN.

    People are validated by deen. Deen is not validated by people, be it Fazil e Barelwi or nuh "not intrinsically impossible to be a liar" keller or Mohammad Yaqoubi or anyone else.

    you're not even loyal to your own jahalah! had you looked even cursorily, you would have found plenty of fatawa against him right now itself! don't wait 10 years for it; you can massage your ego right now... on the odd chance that you chose to be honest to yourself, you may try researching on the validity of those fatawa in the light of the sacred Sharia
  16. Ahmed_

    Ahmed_ Guest

    Deobandi Naat Khawan reciting Barelvi Naats:


    CHISHTI Well-Known Member

    inna lilaahi wa inna ilayhi rajioun...couldn't edit my previous post

    CHISHTI Well-Known Member

    ...."In the end Followers of Faazil - e - barelwi will be a minority... another 10 years and see where will be the followers of faazil e barelwi going to stand in the english speaking world"

    ......This is true...as we progress into the future we will simultaneously become more retarded in our understanding of the Deen and the highest authorities of yester year will seem like nothing as compared to the wannabees of today....not because the wannabees are of the highest calibre of ilm but because WE have degenerated so far, as lay Muslims, that anything and anyone is acceptable to us - so even rotten fruit looks delicious as compared with the fresh fruit of times gone by.

    "10 years from 1998 and see how the stance of Nuh and his students has shifted from pro barelwi to " may be Ahmed Rida Khan made mistakes...why isn't he a human and prone to make mistakes ... "

    This just shows how befriending deviants can change your understanding ...Shaikh Nuh has "progressed" onto believing that it's possible that Allah Ta'ala can lie...yet Ala Hazrat "made mistakes" in defending Al Haqq from now being turned into al baatil!!....you couldn't make it up!! Also Ala Hazrat can "make mistakes" but the kufr of the deobandi elders has to be protected at all cost...the munaafaqat just stuns me!!

    I think the "progression" will be alot quicker than 10 years...even in your post you've gone from "Faazil - e - barelwi" to "you will see fatwas against Ahmed Rida Khan"...which truly shows your reality and intention.

    To make a fatwa against the understanding of Ala Hazrat Rahmatulaah Aley on this issue is not a fatwa against the "berelwis" but against Allah Ta'ala, the Holy Prophet Sall Allaahu Aleyhi Wa Sallam and the total collection of scholars of all schools. It's the destruction of Deen. As brother sunnistudent explains...if the deity can lie then how can we know anything is true??...everything becomes undermined and even imaan is in doubt...which means imaan doesn't exist.

    Brother sunnistudent outlined in a simple way on the previous page the position of the ashari and maturidi schools where Allah has qudrah over all possible things.

    As ive said before about the deobandis...they believe in a God who can lie, a prophet with "no knowledge of what is behind a wall" and a belief system which morphs continuously and caters for whatever the audience infront of them wants...talks on tauheed and bidah whilst in saudi and taqleed and tareeqah infront of the Ulema in syria......inna lilaahi wa inna lilayhi rajioun
  19. in your wishes!
    With the exception of NHK and his recent faux pas, all of the "famous" converts you've mentioned have the same aqidah as we do and they all participate in zikr, mawlid, hadra, urs etc. --all the things the deobandi elders considered shirk and bida'. even the hypocrite deobandis are forced to admit these things are all fine just check sunnipath!!

    the reality is as time passes ala hadrat is being vindicated!
  20. faqeerkhan

    faqeerkhan Guest

    says who ? do you have proof to back up your claims or is it just another casual lie ?

    who else would Nashbandi - Jamaati add to his list of turncoat
    Nuh Keller
    Hamza Yusuf

    and yes, those who say Muhammad Yacoubi is pure 200% sunni-barelwi needs to make sure who are the elders of Muhammad Yacoubi ? where did he study and where did he took ijazas from...and what he thinks of deobandis...

    In the end Followers of Faazil - e - barelwi will be a minority... another 10 years and see where will be the followers of faazil e barelwi going to stand in the english speaking world..

    10 years from 1998 and see how the stance of Nuh and his students has shifted from pro barelwi to " may be Ahmed Rida Khan made mistakes...why isn't he a human and prone to make mistakes ... "

    another 10 years... you will see fatwas against Ahmed Rida Khan...

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