Fish and dairy together

Discussion in 'Tasawwuf / Adab / Akhlaq' started by Umar99, Nov 23, 2017.

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  1. Surati

    Surati Well-Known Member

    This sounds like pseudo science. Yes, it’s very common that people get stomach aches with milk because a lot of people are lactose intolerant and proteins generally take longer to digest. For some people the combination of being bloated and feeling full at the same time is very uncomfortable. It has nothing to do with hot or cold food.

    this whole discussion is completely moot for a lot of northern white people. A lot of them have a gene mutation that allows them to digest milk like any other protein.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2022
  2. Surati

    Surati Well-Known Member

    If someone makes public comments, I don’t see what the issue is.
     
  3. Surati

    Surati Well-Known Member

    lol I once heard someone say that consuming different types of meat at the same meal causes vitiligo.

    as for the milk and fish thing, seems like it is an old wives tale. I have eaten fish in béchamel sauce many times and Alhamdulillah I am completely healthy.

    I don’t get how people believe in such things and call it “following their teacher” and “pious predecessors”. If someone make such claims, then the least they could do is write a paper on it detailing their reasoning before feeding this to the masses.
     
  4. rawatrwi

    rawatrwi New Member

    it seems that this is solely upon the basis of ayurvedic and unani medicine which is ancient greek medicine so in accordance to those branches of ancient medicine the ulema gave credence to them as long as it did not contradict islam.

    it does not seem to be based upon any hukm shar’i or scripture and solely upon the basis of medical research whether it be ayurvedic or unani or advancements the muslims had made upon the greek or ancient indian medicine during their golden age periods and had considered it to be something which was better avoided, keeping in mind, the hukm shar’i does not change on the basis of any kind of medical research.

    it seems to be permissible to consume unless there is clear contextual evidence to say that it is not. as for the ulema granting this credence in the past, then they were doing so in regards to the medical research of the time so the framework in doing so was not wrong because they believed it to be something that is harmful.

    having milk after eating fish and getting skin changes is generally completely false. however it is a form of protein which is a hot or warmer food. drinking something cold straight after (such as milk) could cause mild stomach aches, but still cannot be categorised as only fish. every protein is a food hotter on our stomachs, be it egg or chicken or fish, i would not recommend drinking milk straight after. instant hot then instant cold could cause irritation in the stomach. however, saying it causes skin conditions hasn't been proven by science.

    also, i do not see the need to keep the @’s in the screenshots posted. Allahu a’lam
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2022
  5. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    There are desis as well as Arabs (regardless of maslak) from the older generations who say that consuming fish and milk together causes vitiligo.

    Some people say that that's the case only when the fish/shrimp in question is a carrier of some disease/bacteria/virus, and since we don't know when we buy the fish/shrimp if they carry it, we just avoid eating them together as a rule of thumb. A wahabi acquaintance of mine could swear that his nephew got it due to having milk after shrimps.

    There are doctors from our (my) generation who call it an urban myth with no scientific proof.

    I don't know if the prohibition is mentioned in hadith too.
    -----
    Observant jews don't eat meat and dairy together. Their classification of "fish" is quite similar to ours. Incidentally, for them, fish doesn't qualify as meat and can be cooked or eaten in a vessel alongside dairy!

    https://www.healthline.com/nutritio...kosher tradition, any,in which they're washed.

    https://kosherhouston.org/consumers... is not considered a,utensil than a meat item.
     
  6. shahnawazgm

    shahnawazgm Veteran

    Has anyone managed to find a reference to this apparent hadith where milk and fish combination is forbidden? I don't know why people are quoting Imam Suyuti and till date no reference given.

    There are quite a few recipes of fish cooked in milk sauce in various cuisines, and no scientific prohibition of the two combined. Also seen a few masterchef dishes of fish cooked in white sauce (milk or cream).

    Even one of the Dawate Islami websites mentions this prohibition, but with no reference.
    https://www.dawateislami.net/magazi...and-vegetables/do-not-eat-this-thing-together

    It says in the above link it can lead to white spots on the skin!
     
  7. Surati

    Surati Well-Known Member

    Can anyone answer this?

    Just saw on Twitter people reiterating this milk and fish combination being harmful as if it were fact. Someone even claimed it causes leprosy and people on Twitter are saying wah-wah without even checking if this is even true (note: Leprosy is caused by a bacteria).

    IMG-20220306-WA0038.jpg

    There is no current scientific evidence that milk and fish combined together is harmful to one’s health in a way, except if a person is allergic to one of the two.

    Also not sure what the rationale is for people to avoid milk except if they are lactose intolerant?


    Another person claimed:

    00E59FE0-1504-4646-B633-C26A226FE1E5.jpeg

    It might well be that in some areas/cultures people are intolerant to this particular combination (like if they are lactose intolerant), but there are whole cultures who can consume cooked fish and milk together without any problem. To make this a general prohibition is not right.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 6, 2022
  8. Umar99

    Umar99 Veteran

    Who is Junaid?
     
  9. You are right and Junaid is wrong
     
  10. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    patience. you are jumping the gun.

    i am still ascertaining whether that quote exists and whether it can be attributed to imam suyuti. you want to get a grading!

    this is like asking for the result of a blood test even before a proper uncontaminated sample is submitted.

    ----
     
    Surati and Noori like this.
  11. Can someone elaborate on the ruling and also comment on the Hadith grading please
     
  12. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    then it cannot be deemed a translation of that book. nor should it be assumed that it is.

    ---
     
  13. Umar99

    Umar99 Veteran

    No it does not.
     
  14. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    i don't have the english book.

    since you have the book, does it mention anywhere in the preface or the author's intro etc that the book is a translation of 'al-manhaj'?

    ---
    i assume that you are assuming that it is a translation of al-manhaj.

    ===
    as for the ToC, it is there on the website you linked. and i was expecting some more information from someone who has the book.

    that is bad logic. unless you have also seen al-manhaj and compared the contents, how can you decide that if it doesn't match one, then it seems to be the other one? what if the chapters in the translation do not match the one in al-manhaj either?
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2017
  15. Umar99

    Umar99 Veteran

    Well from the description provided it doesn't seem to match the chapters of the book which is why it seems to be the first one.

    Table of Contents :


    ---About the Author,
    ---Acknowledgements,
    ---Author's Introduction.



    Part One :
    ---[1]. The Theory of Medicine,
    --------The Constitution of Man,
    --------The State of the Body,
    --------The Causes of Disease,
    --------Signs in a Man,
    ---[2]. The Practice of Medicine,
    --------Food,
    --------Drink,
    --------Movement and Rest,
    --------Emission through Sexual Intercourse,
    --------Blood letting and Cupping,
    --------The Emotions,
    --------Habits.
    ---[3]. Principles of Treatment.


    Part Two :
    ---[4]. Properties of Foods and Remedies,
    --------Simple Remedies,
    --------Compund Remedies.
    ---[5]. Dosage of Remedies,
    ---[6]. Observations on Compound Preparations.


    Part Three :
    ---[7]. Treating Disease,
    --------Making use of Medicine,
    --------On Calling in a Physician,
    --------Prescribing doing without Food,
    --------Encouragement to Study Medicine,
    --------Doctors Fees,
    --------Examining the Sick,
    --------Treatment by Members of the Opposite Sex who are not Related,
    --------Compelling the Sick to Eat and Drink,
    --------Minor Services for the Sick,
    --------Visits by the Sick,
    --------Using Haram Remedies,
    --------Treating Fevers,
    --------Treating Minor Ailments,
    --------Cauterisation,
    --------Sprains, Fractures and Bites,
    --------Avoiding Pests at Night,
    --------The Plague,
    --------Al-Ghayla and Al-'Azala,
    --------The Evil Eye,
    --------Spiritual Remedies,
    --------The Benefits in Being Sick and in Visiting the Sick,
    --------Embryology and Anatomy,
    --------Listening to Recitation,
    --------Small Pox, Measles and Chicken pox.


    ---Glossary of Arabic Terms,
    ---Glossary of Medical terms,
    ---Index.

    To me it doesn't seem to be the same one, however I may be mistaken.


    I have seen the book and I typed out what is found on the page, the book I have is the one found in the link.
     
  16. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    how did you guess that it is al-manhaj and not kitab al-raHmah?

    or what makes you say that?

    please cite your sources properly next time. and whether you are quoting from the book or someone else's citation of the book.

    it is easy to google and cut/paste from source-A, which might have picked it from source-B and so on. so if you cite from a book, it is assumed that you have seen it yourself and are hence citing from the book directly.

    ----
     
  17. Umar99

    Umar99 Veteran

    This is from a translation:

    Details: As-Suyuti's Medicine of the Prophet, Tibb an Nabi, NEW,
    *[A5] Paperback - 240 pages,
    by Imam Jalal 'ud-Din as-Suyuti, Back in Stock - Sept 2017,
    Edited by Ahmad Thomson,
    Published by Taha, UK.

    http://islam786books.com/index.php?...ducts_id=784&zenid=2v4pmcuur2f28sqq9m04anqn21

    It seems to be al-manhaj al-nabawi wa man'hal al-rawi fi't tib al-nabawi.
     
  18. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    bump. brother umar99, can you please answer?
     
  19. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    is this quoted from a translation or have you translated yourself?

    secondly, there are two books attributed to suyuti on medicine; one of which imam suyuti himself claimed in his tahadduth, and another supposedly an incorrect attribution.

    now which of the two are you quoting from? to reiterate - is it your own translation or whether you picked it from someone. and if it is your own, which is the text that you are referring to.



    ----

    the first is al-manhaj al-nabawi wa man'hal al-rawi fi't tib al-nabawi.

    the second book kitab al-raHmah fi't tibb wa'l Hikmah attributed to suyuti has weird narrations and most likely authored by a scholar sabiri as haji khalifah says in kashf al-zunun. see the description matches the one that is being published these days.

    kashfzunun, v1-p836.png


    Allah ta'ala knows best.
     
    Noori and Aqdas like this.
  20. Umar99

    Umar99 Veteran

    Tibb an-Nabbi, Part one, Chapter 2 The Practice of Medicine, Section on Food, Page 11.
     

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