Gender segregation

Discussion in 'Tasawwuf / Adab / Akhlaq' started by Unbeknown, Oct 11, 2019.

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  1. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    sounds like a sensible person.
  2. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    isn't this a good example of non sequitur?

    So the societies that enforce gender segregation somehow end up consuming nearly as high quantities of porn as those who enforce free inter-mingling between sexes? And yet the culprit is gender segregation and nothing else?

    Sidi abu Hasan had posted these statistics not too long ago - about children born out of wedlock.

    So what would you achieve if you removed those norms (which, for all we know, might have been upheld just in name)? Less pornography consumption, lower incidences of illegitimate births and lower incidences of molestation and objectification of women?

    Does the writer of that article have a rigorously researched example from any society - past or present - to substantiate his hypothesis?

    On the other hand we do have a lot of examples to prove otherwise - Islamic societies from the past as well as western societies before the immorality explosion.

    Just see the consistently falling standards in literature - say from early modern period to today. For instance, compare the writings of Walter Scott, Jane Austen and any contemporary author. And I don't mean works written specifically to cater to sensual appetites but those which really reflect the times they were written in.

    One can find endless examples of societal outrage towards works written in the past which are considered "perfectly normal" in today's society. So what has changed over time?
  3. FaqirHaider

    FaqirHaider اللَه المقدر والعالم شؤون لا تكثر لهمك ما قدر يكون

    I have come to learn that there is a rise of "homosexual tendencies" among those in the middle eastern countries (KSA, gulf mainly) among the sisters , the catalyst being bottled up with limited to no access to to the opposite gender while going through hormonal change (puberty), other ingredients for this disastrous tendency being consumption of western media and shows which (subliminally &/ blatantly promotes such actions), social media giving way for such tendencies, the rise of "boyyat (tomboys which often then leads to homosexual habits [girl pretends to be men]) in Universities and Malls. I believe these tendencies are fostered in many societies which mimic an environment in which gener segregation is aggressively forced, while blocking / or making it difficult , to access or obtain a natural gateway for their physiological need via the means of marriage. Though the population and number of such cases are very low, nonetheless they are either rising or constantly occurring, and demands attention. The same situation occurs in madrasas (though I've only observed/noticed this mainly in deobandiyya madaris) but it is something that can occur in any environment in which the parameters are met.

    Also, due note that the institutions in which this occurs , do not exercises or promote or teach methods to control or maneuver these desires, whispers of shaytan, or mujahida. Those institutions that have rigorous segregation, but implement and teach the students how to process or control there desires (encourage students to marry or fast or go through therapy) are non included in my observation.

    This isn't exclusively a middle eastern epidemic, Im sure it is global and in our desi countries (but Alhumdulillah not to a significant degree )

    Allahu Alam
  4. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    It's not my post, btw. It's something on social media and I wanted people's views.
  5. Abdullah Ahmed

    Abdullah Ahmed Well-Known Member

    This might be a bit tangential but it covers some of what is mentioned:

  6. barelwi

    barelwi New Member

    I understand your point of view and agree with you, but the issue is very delicate and difficult to work around / make easier to deal with.

    I agree with you that, in today's day and age, extreme segregation between men and women leads people to believe that the only connection that can be made is a sexual one.

    Although people may object that according to Shari'ah, men and women should be segregated, I feel in today's time particularly in the West, the commonality of sexuality and the perversion of people are at unimaginable levels. In the media, in schools, in public, it is becoming more and more difficult to shield our children from it.

    It is feasible to say that a parent can remove TVs from the house, monitor and restrict internet usage, home school children, etc; but how reasonable is this of us to expect of the common working Muslim man.

    Hence, there must be another solution to protect the community's children, if not to put them in the best position possible to make the right choices.

    One may question why extreme segregation isn't practical, but is it impractical to think that it is achievable in today's society. With regards to the issue which has arisen recently with a Sunni scholar here in the UK which many will have heard about, it goes to show we have to do more than locking away our daughters to protect them.

    It is likely inevitable that they will come into contact with a man / or that men will come into contact with a lady; whether at work, school, or in positions of vulnerability. By only teaching by confinement, we do not equip our children with the best tools and knowledge to conduct themselves properly, and to protect themselves and others as best they could.

    On the other hand, if we say extreme segregation isn't practical, then logically speaking (please correct my flawed logic if wrong), the next step to propose would be less extreme segregation, i.e. segregation with some mixing.

    The issue that arises is how are we able to achieve this while conforming to Shari'ah, and is this even possible? If not, what steps are we to take, if any? How do we allow our children to learn from an environment that is safe, and is lawful, while being realistic?
  7. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    What do people think?
  8. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    A thought on segregation - just a THOUGHT. Feel free to disagree. If you want to rant, please do it on your own page.

    We need to really cut down on telling our community what halal and haram relationships are and shift the focus to safe and unsafe relationships. A halal relationship can be just as detrimental as a haram one.

    We also need to get our heads out of the sand and acknowledge that extreme segregation between men and women only augments and reinforces one idea: that men and women can only share one type of relationship; a sexual one. This is the height of female objectification, and provides the perfect mental conditions for perversion to snowball into something sinister. Have you seen the stats for pornographic searches from Muslim majority countries? Not as bad as the US and UK but still up there in the top 10.

    We have Islamic values which provide general guidelines about segergation. They are beautiful and compliment human nature. Beyond that, we need to move away from trying to treat issues through legal fiqh dictions of halal and haram from a very different era and instead look at the deeper aspects of our own soceity at present.

    "Our problems are a result of not following Islam properly," is a real lazy answer and an easy way out.

    In summary; I am against the idea of treating male issues by locking away women. As the father of a wonderful daughter, I think we would rather help equip men and women to confidently deal with unsavoury people than nurture within them the mindset of a victim, i.e. wear hijab, be modest, but don't be afraid to "take the necessary action*" if they cross lines. More segregation does not equate to less problems. That is naive.

    Allah give us understanding and protect our children.

    *a kick in the old gluteus maximus works wonders.


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