Hand of Allah

Discussion in 'Aqidah/Kalam' started by Unbeknown, Jan 8, 2022.

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  1. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    a band of infinite monkeys tapping away at an infinity of typewriters will eventually produce one of Shakespeare's sonnets or Newton's Principia (quite by accident) - hypothetically speaking.

    But a band of infinite devbandis will never produce one factual essay (sans lies and distortion) - not even in theory*.

    * in such dystopian models, the crow population of the local universe always tends to go extinct, but that's a subject for another day ...
     
  2. Alf

    Alf Active Member

    Exactly. Hence my confusion if the site was a deobandi one or a wahabi one, because we know that ahlus sunnah accepts both tafwid and tawil, and the only sunni claimants I know who refuse tawil are the wahabis.
     
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  3. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    that moron who has written that piece seeks to understand sifat of Allah via arabic-english dictionaries. the idiot has no clue of kalam or istilahat - denial of sifat and ta'wil are two different things. he takes snippets and acts as if he knows the subject well.

    whats there to respond? lies and imbecility are a dangerous combination. especially when he himself seems to be incapable of accessing arabic works. for example:

    moron1.png


    ---
    firstly, he says: "let us do a translation" and then uses a deobandi translation "page 99 translation of book..."

    the translation should be accompanied by footnotes explaining that the position of the salaf was of tafwid and the later ulama allowed ta'wil so long as it is within linguistically plausible limits. i have not seen the translation, so i won't comment.

    imam abu hanifah's comments are about the mutazilah and jahmiyyah who DENY that 'yad' is an attribute. we attest the attribute, do tafweed, however, in explaining hadith, we are compelled to use ta'wil to prevent common people from falling into tajsim/anthropomorphism.

    the author of that article has no clue of what else is found in qari's sharh of fiqh al-akbar; in the same discussion, mawlana ali ali-qari explains further below:

    minah, p128.png


    ibn daqiq took the middle path and said: ta'wil is acceptable if it the meaning is close to the idioms of the arabs (i.e. arabic language). and will not be accepted (tawaqquf) if it is far-fetched. ibn humam also trod this middle path when he said that (it is permissible) "when it becomes necessary to explain in other words (ta'wil) to avoid confusing the common public"


    ===
    reading one or two books or translations does not make one an expert in the subject. especially bloggers of our time, who do not even read books, but like stray hens pecking on grains sparsely strewn in the sand, pick stuff from similar posters on the internet and attempt to present their shoddy pieces as 'research' and refutation.

    and this is one example. a serious researcher would look up scores of kalam works, (btw, anyone with basic understanding of ashari-maturidi positions would not make such stupid allegations) and if one quotes a scholar, it would be prudent to look up other works of the scholar to ensure whether he has explained it in another book/ another place in the same book.

    take mawlana ali al-qari who used the ta'wil "qudratihi" for "bi-yadihi" in his sh.mishkat. (see 1/400 #194)

    mirqat, v1p400.png


    ----
    look at how proudly he advertises his jahl:

    moron2.png

    if he had some knowledge, he would look up any of the hadith commentaries. and since he mentions mawlana ali al-qari, let us see what he has to say about it in his mirqat (1/144, #10)

    mirqat v1p144.png


    mulla ali al-qari himself makes ta'wil! and so does al-haytami (in sharh mishkat, 1/256):

    fath-ilah, v1p256.png
    the madh'hab of the salaf (i.e. imam azam, imam malik and imam ahmad) is that of tafwid. avoiding ta'wil altogether. however, in later times, we do ta'wil and explain it in way that does not contradict tanzih (transcendence) of Allah ta'ala in such mutashabihat.


    ====
    i can quote many more such examples, but since the poor fellow has not understood the context of imam azam's statement, here is a snippet from al-bayadi's isharat al-maram (p189 kawthari edition):

    isharat,.png

    ---
    yad and yamin are metaphors for Power. and that later ulama allowed ta'wil to avoid common people falling into anthropomorphic descriptions and imagining 'yad' to be a limb. and to steer them away from such imagery, they explained these words as metaphors - and this does not distort the meaning at all.

    "my life is in His Power" does not contradict or refute "my life is in His Hand" because irrespective of one's making ta'wil of yad, the fact is true that we are all "in His Power".

    ----
    the guy who wrote the article needs to first learn the proper aqidah of ahl al-sunnah. and if he finds a few aaloos in his brain, he must do tawbah for insulting Allah's waliy. nas'alu Allah al-aafiyah.

    wAllahu a'alam.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2022
  4. Alf

    Alf Active Member

  5. AR Ahmed

    AR Ahmed Veteran

  6. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    yad is a metaphor to power and nobody, not even the anthropomorphist wahabi says that His Hand is like our hand. so using hand, is excused.

    'oopar wala' 'Lord above' clearly indicates direction and a place ("ABOVE") which is absolutely incorrect belief about Allah ta'ala.

    wa dhatan an jihati's sitti khaali
     
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  7. Ghulam Ali

    Ghulam Ali Well-Known Member

    In sha Allah.
     
  8. Ghulam Ali

    Ghulam Ali Well-Known Member

    Would like to read about this, and the translation of
     
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  9. Umar99

    Umar99 Veteran

    Also the Urdu phrase similar to "the Lord above": "Oopar Wala"
     
  10. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    If we can transate يد as hand or ہاتھ - why can't we say 'the Lord above'? Can't both be taken figuratively?
     
  11. sunni_porter

    sunni_porter Well-Known Member

    Can you kindly provide the explanation.
     
  12. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    the second example:


    [​IMG]

    is also very interesting. alahazrat's translation as you have quoted below is: 'i created him with Mine Own Hands'.

    [​IMG]

    ---
    i don't remember if i have mentioned this here before, but i definitely remember discussing this with aqdas. alahazrat's attention to detail and his ability to bring out the nuance is incredible. [will explain tomorrow in-sha'Allah]
     
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  13. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    i have explained this in more places earlier. both tafwiD and ta'wil have been translated from qari's Daw al-ma'ali. the issue of ta'wil was to avoid misunderstanding by commoners. this is mentioned in various works.

    i have in the other thread as well.

    alahazrat's translation is based on tafsir. so it is context sensitive. besides, it is permissible to say hand - whcih i explained in another thread.

    ---
    khayr, take these examples you have mentioned 5:64:

    [​IMG]



    ----
    here 'Hand' does not refer to 'Power'. it is a metaphor for generosity.

    the jews did not say: "Allah has no Power". rather they said: "Allah's hands are constricted" a metaphor to mean, "He doesn't give".

    replacing with power does not make sense. moreover it was the jews who said: "yad" and they meant "hands" as in 'giving'.

    and Allah ta'ala replied to them in their own idiom and said: 'both His Hands are wide open" meaning - He is very generous.

    so that was the best translation here. using "power" or "niymah" is not exactly a fit here.


    ---
    qurtubi:

    this was fanHaS ibn aazuraa who were wealthy; and when they disbelieved in sayyiduna muHammad sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam, their wealth declined. so they said: "Allah is a miser and His Hand is constricted from giving us."

    ....

    about a miser, the idioms used are: 'crumpled fingertips' 'constricted/closed palms' 'shrivelled fingers' ; shackled hands [ja'ad al-anamil, maqbuD al-kaff, kazz al-aSabiy, maghlul al-yad]

    ===
    so obviously, he used 'hand' which is self-explanatory.

    Allah ta'ala knows best.
     
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  14. basirqadri786

    basirqadri786 Banned

    I like your explanation, however there two seperate issues
    1. Issue about YAD - attribute or taweel

    2. Issue about translation of Yad as Hand or in urdu haath

    You have nicely tackled the point #1 however you have not commented on point #2

    Now as you mention that
    Then I would like to know why has Alahazrat Imam Ahmed Raza Khan at places used Haat ہاتھ Hand and at places done Tawil ?


    Regarding point #1 you mentioned
    Not some ulama, infact our Imam Abu Mansur Maturidi himself said such, hence we are the followers of Imam Maturidi,
    if you look up tafsir of our imam abu mansur maturidi under the ayah 5:64
    (بَلْ يَدَاهُ مَبْسُوطَتَانِ)، أي: نعمه مبسوطة: يوسع على من يشاء، ويقتر على من يشاء.

    But then this gets confusing if you read
    Ibn `Asâkir wrote:

    The Mu`tazila said: He has a “hand” (yad) but His “hand” is his power (qudra) and favor (ni`ma), while His “face” (wajh) is His existence. The H.ashwiyya said: His hand is a limb (jârih.a), and His face has a form (s.ûra).2
    Al-Ash`arî took the middle road and said: His hand is an Attribute and His face is an Attribute, just like His hearing and His sight.


    How to balance between the two ?
    reply from Imam Pazdawi

    The Mâturîdî position is comprehensively stated by Fakhr al-Islâm al-Pazdawi (d. 482):

    For us [Mâturîdîs], (those who are firmly grounded in knowledge) (3:7) have no share in the knowledge of the ambiguous content of Qurân (al-mutashâbih) other than pure acquiescence (al-taslîm), believing in the real nature of the meaning (h.aqqiyyat al-murâd) in the Divine presence and that the pause at His saying: (None knows its explanation save Allâh) (3:7) is required (waqf wâjib). The People of Belief belong to one of two levels in knowledge: some over-zealously demand that it be read without pause – those are tested with a form of ignorance – and some demand the pause – those are honored with a form of knowledge”?. An example of the ambiguous verses are the individual letters that open certain suras. Another example is the affirmation of the vision of Allâh (swt) with the sight of the eyes in reality in the hereafter, according to the explicit text of the Qurân: (On that day will faces be resplendent, looking towards their Lord) (75:22-23). For He exists with the Attribute of perfection, and the fact that He can be seen both by Himself and others, is among the characteristics of perfection; moreover, the believer is apt to receive such bestowal of the Divine gift. However, the affirmation of direction is precluded (ithbât al-jiha mumtani`). It follows that the description of the vision is among the ambiguities, ans so it is obligatory to acquiesce to it while believing in its reality. Similarly, the affirmation of the Hand and the Face are real (ithbât al-yad wal-wajh h.aqq) in our School, known in its principle but ambiguous in its description (ma`lûmun bi as.lihi mutashâbihun biwas.fihi). It will not be permitted to invalidate the principle on the grounds that one is unable to comprehend the description. The Mu`tazila went astray only in this respect, for they rejected the principles because of their ignorance of the Attributes and became nullifiers-of-the-Attributes (mu`at.t.ila).”

    [31] Al-Pazdawi in `Ala’ al-Dîn al-Bukhârî’s commentary on al-Pazdawi’s Us.ûl entitled Kashf al-Asrâr (1:55-60). `Ala’ al-Dîn al-Bukhârî comments: (1:60) “By saying: `For us,’ the Shaykh shunned the position of those who say: `Allâh is not to be described as possessing a face and hands, rather, what is meant by the face is contentment (al-ridâ) or the Essence (al-dhât) and the like; and what is meant by the hand is power or favor and the like.’ The Shaykh therefore said: Rather, Allâh is described with the Attribute of Face and that of Hand, together with the upholding of His Transcendence (tanzîh) above having a form (s.ûra) and a limb (jârih.a)…. Similarly with the affirmation of modality (ithbât al-kayfiyya): its description is ambiguous, therefore it is obligatory to acquiesce to it, firmly believing in its reality without busying oneself with interpretation.”



    My conclusion:
    This has nothing to do with commoner having trouble understanding or for the educated one it is easy to do tanzih, many great scholars did tawil.

    There are two ways, Tafwid and Tawil, and both are ok. Imam Abu Hanifa took Tafwid as he mentioned in his fiqh akbar (sharh by Hazrat Mullah Ali Qari) and Imam Abu Mansur Maturidi took Tawil. But saying commoner is not used to concept of tafwid, doesn't seem to be the case.


    I hope this answers the question what is the meaning of Yad, however, the i am still looking why at some instances AlaHazrat translated Yad as hand and at some instances as authority (power)

    Perhaps, he referred to some tafsirs where they tawil, he followed the translation as tawil and where the scholars did tafwid he followed the path of tafwid. So he took both approaches, tawil and tafwid. That's my 2 cents.

    But i am trying to answer this statement of imam abu hanifah from fiqh akbar "It is permissible to express all the attributes of Allah Most High that the scholars have expressed in Persian, with the exception of hand in Persian. It is permissible to say ru’e khuda (the Countenance of God) Most Mighty and Majestic without any comparison or modality."
     
  15. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    Divine Attributes, only Allah ta'ala knows what the real meaning of "yad" or "a'ayun" is.

    we do not insist that the meaning of "yad" IS "hand". however, we do use ta'wil in common speech because the commoner is not used to the concept of tafwiD (submitting the true meaning to Allah) nor is he acquainted with many issues of tanzih. when he encounters this verse and you say 'yad' - he doesn't understand anything. when you translate it to 'hand', the danger remains that he may understand the manner of hand is similar to our hands. (al-iyadhu billah).

    the pompous wahabi may scoff and insist that we should say: there is no similitude to our hands and His Hand. but the fact is something you cannot run away from - words evoke images and describe experiences; and every man takes to it according his own situation.

    if i say the word mother - the default image (taSawwur) i have is MY mother and when you hear, it is YOUR mother who spontaneously comes to your mind. similarly, when i say 'as sweet as an apple' it is MY experience of the sweetness of an apple; and you will have your own. it is impossible for me to force you to resist your own experience of sweetness and confirm to mine [which you cannot anyway].

    the point is that when we say hand - unless the mind is trained to understand connotations, and that it has to forego similitude, and is aware of the limitations of human thought - you cannot expect such a mind to NOT believe that hand is an organ or is not similar but still insist that it is a hand. this latter description is of most common people who have no introduction to the rules of tanzih, and are not aware of the dangers of tashbih. therefore ulama made it simpler for them saying - it COULD mean power. because that is a metaphor for power. and the true meaning is known only to Allah ta'ala.

    -----
    the other rule is to not mention or discuss mutashabihat except when you encounter them in the qur'an or sahih hadith. where possible, and where a plausible ta'wil is permitted we explain, where not possible we keep quiet.

    Allah ta'ala knows best.
     
  16. basirqadri786

    basirqadri786 Banned

    JAZKALLAH, read the whole thread. The post #58 is mainly regarding attributes. However, I found something relating to Translation of يد as

    Now if you look below in the translations of Alahazrat Imam Ahmad Raza Khan, he has used the urdu word
    ہاتھ for arabic يد
    and rendered into English as "Hand" by Hazrat Shah Faridul Haque (Professor)
    my question was: Is the English renderation of arabic Yad as Hand , proper ?
    In urdu, should i be authority or ہاتھ
     
  17. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

  18. basirqadri786

    basirqadri786 Banned

    alahazrat kanz translation and the english translation of kanz

    Sh. Abu Hasan can you please look into the English Translations of Kanz. In the English translation some places it is translated as Hand and some places as Authority, and also the usage of Hand with capital H vs small h

    I have included Aisha Bewley translation for a reason, that all her translations use Hand. Sometimes in arabic, such translations may be improper.



    5:64

    وَقَالَتِ الْيَهُودُ يَدُ اللَّهِ مَغْلُولَةٌ غُلَّتْ أَيْدِيهِمْ وَلُعِنُوا بِمَا قَالُوا بَلْ يَدَاهُ مَبْسُوطَتَانِ يُنفِقُ كَيْفَ يَشَاءُ وَلَيَزِيدَنَّ كَثِيرًا مِّنْهُم مَّا أُنزِلَ إِلَيْكَ مِن رَّبِّكَ طُغْيَانًا وَكُفْرًا وَأَلْقَيْنَا بَيْنَهُمُ الْعَدَاوَةَ وَالْبَغْضَاءَ إِلَىٰ يَوْمِ الْقِيَامَةِ كُلَّمَا أَوْقَدُوا نَارًا لِّلْحَرْبِ أَطْفَأَهَا اللَّهُ وَيَسْعَوْنَ فِي الْأَرْضِ فَسَادًا وَاللَّهُ لَا يُحِبُّ الْمُفْسِدِينَ

    Aisha Bewley: The Jews say, ´Allah´s hand is chained.´ Their hands are chained and they are cursed for what they say! No! Both His hands are open wide and He gives however He wills. What has been sent down to you from your Lord increases many of them in insolence and kufr. We have incited enmity and hatred between them until the Day of Rising. Each time they kindle the fire of war, Allah extinguishes it. They rush about the earth corrupting it. Allah does not love corrupters.

    AlaHazrat Imam Ahmed Raza Khan : The Jews have said, the hand of Allah is tied up, their own hands he tied up and there be curse of Allah on them for their uttering, but His hands are wide open. He gives how He pleases, And O beloved Prophet! What has been sent down to you from your Lord will increase many of them in wickedness and infidelity. And We have cast among them enmity and hatred till the Day of Judgement. Whenever they kindle the fire of war, Allah extinguishes it and run about in the land for mischief. And Allah loves not the mischief mongers.

    [​IMG]

    38:75
    قَالَ يَا إِبْلِيسُ مَا مَنَعَكَ أَن تَسْجُدَ لِمَا خَلَقْتُ بِيَدَيَّ أَسْتَكْبَرْتَ أَمْ كُنتَ مِنَ الْعَالِينَ

    Aisha Bewley: He said, ´Iblis, what prevented you prostrating to what I created with My own Hands? Were you overcome by arrogance or are you one of the exalted?´

    AlaHazrat Imam Ahmed Raza Khan : Allah said, O lblis', 'what hindered you from falling prostrate before that which I made with My own hands? Have you been proud or you were indeed among haughty ones?

    [​IMG]


    39:67
    وَمَا قَدَرُوا اللَّهَ حَقَّ قَدْرِهِ وَالْأَرْضُ جَمِيعًا قَبْضَتُهُ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ وَالسَّمَاوَاتُ مَطْوِيَّاتٌ بِيَمِينِهِ سُبْحَانَهُ وَتَعَالَىٰ عَمَّا يُشْرِكُونَ

    Aisha Bewley : They do not measure Allah with His true measure. The whole earth will be a mere handful for Him on the Day of Rising, the heavens folded up in His right hand. Glory be to Him! He is exalted above the partners they ascribe!

    AlaHazrat Imam Ahmed Raza Khan : And "they esteemed not Allah as was due to Him and He will roll up the. Entire earth on the Day of Judgement and all the heavens shall be rolled up by His Authority. And He is Sanctified and Exalted from their association.
    [​IMG]



    67:1
    تَبَارَكَ الَّذِي بِيَدِهِ الْمُلْكُ وَهُوَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ

    Aisha Bewley: Blessed be He who has the Kingdom in His Hand! He has power over all things.

    AlaHazrat Imam Ahmed Raza Khan : Immensely blessed is He in Whose control is the entire Kingdom, and He has authority over every thing.

    [​IMG]



    3:26
    قُلِ اللَّهُمَّ مَالِكَ الْمُلْكِ تُؤْتِي الْمُلْكَ مَن تَشَاءُ وَتَنزِعُ الْمُلْكَ مِمَّن تَشَاءُ وَتُعِزُّ مَن تَشَاءُ وَتُذِلُّ مَن تَشَاءُ بِيَدِكَ الْخَيْرُ إِنَّكَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ

    Aisha Bewley: Say: "O God, absolute Master of all dominion! You give dominion to whom You will, and take away dominion from whom You will, and You exalt and honor whom You will, and abase whom You will; in Your hand is all good; surely You have full power over everything.

    AlaHazrat Imam Ahmed Raza Khan : Say like this, 'O Allah Master of the Kingdom, You give the Kingdom to whom You please; and seize the Kingdom from whom You please. And you exalt whom You please and You abase whom You please; in Your hand is all good. No doubt You can do all things.

    [​IMG]






     
  19. Ghulam e Mustafa

    Ghulam e Mustafa Active Member

    Jazakallah brother
     
  20. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    now marvel at the beauty of alahazrat's translation - almost literal word-to-word parity; and at the same time conveys the tafsir as it should be understood by you and i.

    aur qiyamat ka din woh sab zameenoN ko samayT de ga
    aur uski qudrat se sab aasman lipayT diye jayeNge
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 17, 2016

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