Mobiles in Prayer

Discussion in 'Tasawwuf / Adab / Akhlaq' started by Aqib alQadri, Mar 30, 2017.

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  1. Layman

    Layman Banned

    It says in your Opinion.

    I dont meet regularly any reliable muftis. Also when i do they have their life to live.

    But i have access to a brother whom i trust who knows about these rulings with great detail from published books
  2. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    You are asking for a fatwa, why don't you go to a mufti?
  3. Layman

    Layman Banned

    Yeah i understand, I suppose this is why after a while I always go back to the place. (there is other etiquette issues which are 50/50 whether due to shear disrespect for prayer, Mosque and people)

    This time the phone call before he ordered iqamat really got to me because he left it to ring again if someone called, and he never answered the calls so 'no vital importance for deen reasons' could be the cause.

    Ok thank you, it is true he is more forgetful (done more sajda of forgetfulness behind him then heard about its rulings)

    And you are right that we can not really say too much due to the rules upon us

    For the future, in your opinion, shall i pray alone rather then pray at this Mosque or shall i go to the one prayer where this Mosque offer a later jamaat if i miss jamaat at other Mosques?
  4. Aqib alQadri

    Aqib alQadri Veteran

    the guy in the second case seems to be more forgetful, that's all. if he does not put his mobile on silent ON PURPOSE, then he is guilty of poor etiquette.
    Ghulam Ali likes this.
  5. Layman

    Layman Banned

    Yes Brother, what an excellent post

    Certainly the case for 1) Guy 1's phone rings whilst in standing position, he takes one hand off, the left hand, and turns phone ringtone off by pressing a button on the phone through pressure on pocket outer garment. (Could be a one off, don't really know him)

    Can't go any further with this Imam, otherwise we'd be guilty of not having husn e zann

    brother the other case is different, he is doing it on purpose and regularly.

    Can you have a look at this too:
    2) Guy 2's phone is not usually turned off or put into silent for prayer except for Juma, his phone has rung before but this particular day phone rings just before iqamat. He looks at phone and rejects the call, near end of prayer it rings again. He says salam to end prayer and takes phone out, rejects the call, throws the phone on the ground in front, makes dua, picks his phone up and vacates the prayer hall. He never did answer it, just rejected the calls
  6. Aqib alQadri

    Aqib alQadri Veteran

    it is human nature to forget; in fact, some scholars say the word Insaan is also derived from the word NaSeYa (to forget).

    رَبَّنَا لَا تُؤَاخِذْنَا إِن نَّسِينَا أَوْ أَخْطَأْنَا ۚ
    “Our Lord! Do not seize us if we forget or are mistaken;

    keep a good opinion about others (husn e zann); and do not bother about every person's actions; we do not know their intentions, nor are we commanded to delve into it to find out.

    as far as the nuisance factor is concerned, each one is responsible for not causing any sort of chaos or distraction in the mosque. this general rule applies to all.
    Ghulam Ali, Noori and Layman like this.
  7. Layman

    Layman Banned

    post 1 describes the situations (that need shari approval/disapproval/condemnation)
  8. Layman

    Layman Banned

    Basically the issue is acceptability of leaving the phone on during prayer for Imams

    I can try to give my own sharayi guesses but the initial purpose of the thread is for someone more knowledgeable to that

    I hope that makes sense
  9. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    yes, what about post 1?
    RazaRaza likes this.
  10. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    the best way to do that is to ask simple questions. if you use plain english and stop talking like you are muttering in your sleep, i won't waste time writing half a page.

    ask simple, get simple. that is my motto.
  11. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    i am sorry if you feel that you are being mocked, but there should be an option, similar to 'Like', to expess laughter. brother, you are amusing.

    Sorry again, if it hearts.
  12. Layman

    Layman Banned

    Post 1

    Sorry, just how it is. Please Keep the posts simple so i am not trying to answer anything awkward
  13. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    first then, learn to ask a question.

    shariah position about WHAT?

    your writing looks like someone talking in their sleep. sentences abruptly end
  14. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    your writing is nebulous, to say the least. i am asking you to be objective, specific and explain what exactly is the issue. and in which action is the issue. i broke it down for you from your own speech.

    now don't run away - tell me what exactly is causing you to cringe? and WHY?.

    i will disregard the fact that the above sentence is rambling and nonsensical. if i have understood correctly, you are accusing me of "whitewashing" the issue. i am actually asking you what is wrong, where it is wrong, why it is wrong and what do you think is the right thing to do in each instance. plus what is the sharayi status of everything that you think is wrong.
    Ghulam Ali likes this.
  15. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    someone come WHERE?

    please talk properly - not in vague insinuations.
  16. Layman

    Layman Banned

    This is way off the mark. You are assuming too much and just using my willingness to critic to whitewash the issue.

    I never stated the rulings on the imam or his actions. My dislike is evident for those actions but you are imagining more and more then what has been said

    If you are saying there is nothing to dislike with intentionally leaving the phone on during prayer. Then yes im wrong otherwise there is issues in this act
  17. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    Not a good justification. Consult a mufti first.
  18. Layman

    Layman Banned

    Look noori bhai let someone come in who knows about prayer and its rulings.

    Its really got nothing to do with either imam except that these incidents have been done by them. Its a side issue about them.

    I may bring it up with him but i also need to know the shariah positions on the matter before i do. You see the advice might be to stay clear or not pray behind such person or all sorts.
  19. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    Probably because he follows postion # 1 mentioned in post # 7.
  20. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator


    don't blackmail us with your "shaykh asrar's student" line. it won't grant you divine immunity for being a student of a well known scholar.

    the layman's standards are exceptionally high:

    CASE 1:
    this particular day phone rings just before iqamat.

    He looks at phone and rejects the call, near end of prayer it rings again.

    He says salam to end prayer

    and takes phone out, rejects the call,

    throws the phone
    on the ground in front,

    makes dua, picks his phone up and

    vacates the prayer hall.

    He never did answer it, just rejected the calls​

    CASE 2:

    the imam attended the phone call during prayer,

    asked people to wait,

    left the masjid while people remained standing,

    then after a while he came back and continued without iqamah.​

    i cannot understand what bugs the layman - other than perhaps that he is a sunni imam

    so according to layman (choose the correct option for a complete answer):

    1. imam should not have a phone - carrying a phone is:

    shirk / bid'ah / haram / makruh / other: (please specify)

    2. the imam can NEVER forget to switch off the phone. forgetting to switch off one's phone during namaz is:

    shirk / bid'ah / haram / makruh / other: (please specify)

    3. everyone forgets; but the imam can forget only once. if he forgets more than once, it is his habit - the imam deliberately wants the phone to ring in salat. maybe the imam asks his kids or non-muslim friends to ring him during salat so he can finish it faster?

    4. ideally, the imam should switch off his phone or put it in silent mode; there could be many reasons for the imam's just rejecting it; he might have thought that he won't get another call, or the person who called probably understands he is in namaz etc. regardless, this action of ONLY rejecting and NOT putting it in silent mode or switching off the phone is:

    shirk / bid'ah / haram / makruh / other: (please specify)

    5. just near the end of the prayer, the phone rings. choose the best answer:

    a) put your hand in the pocket, take it out, or try to switch off the phone somehow and then end the prayer.

    b) as you are near the end, do the salam, end the prayer and take the phone out to switch it off.
    6. in the above, by not switching off the phone before ending the prayer. the imam has committed:

    shirk / bid'ah / haram / makruh / other: (please specify)
    7. then the imam REJECTED the call once again! has the imam committed:

    shirk / bid'ah / haram / makruh / other: (please specify)

    8. the imam then threw down the phone - it could be just to show more importance to dua, but let has have suu' zann about him. should the imam have kept it with utmost respect near the minbar (assuming it was close by) or switched it off (at least now, plEEEASE!) did he display anger or frustration?, is this throwing down the phone:

    shirk / bid'ah / haram / makruh / other: (please specify)

    9. the imam picked up his phone and vacated the hall. what should he have done? should he have stayed back lest some muqtadiy gets annoyed that he left? or should he have answered the phone in the masjid? now that he has done this crime, what kind of action is this?

    shirk / bid'ah / haram / makruh / other: (please specify)

    could it be that it was an important call on some important issue? or is it that imams should never attend any calls - even after finishing prayer and going out of the masjid? sub'HanAllah, pray what exactly causes heartburn to layman? maybe layman wanted the imam to pray 200 raka'ah before going out to answer his phone. i simply don't understand what is wrong with this.

    10. he never answered it, and only rejected it. what exactly is the causing you anger and frustration and makes you cringe at the ASWJ?

    unless layman specifies which hukm of shariah is violated in the imam's actions and why there is no scope for ta'wil or husn-zann, his whining is only an example of the deep hatred he has for ahl al-sunnah. his flouting a label of being shaykh asrar's student doesn't hold water.

    one ought to be extremely narrow minded or have an intense hatred to view an otherwise normal and justifiable action in such a negative manner.

    i always advise laymen to learn before preaching.
    N-Sunni, Aqdas and Noori like this.
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