Mufti Zahid Hussain Rizvi - Kufar Has Come Within Sayiduna Adam AS

Discussion in 'Multimedia' started by Noori, Dec 26, 2016.

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  1. kattarsunni

    kattarsunni Veteran

    I elucidate: I want to know where you are getting this story of Shaykh AbdulQadir radiyAllahu anhu from, to ascertain what type of sources you are using to establish your arguement.

    Remember you cannot pull a tonne of weight with a piece of string. If the source is credible then simply provide it so we can then analyse your arguement and line of reasoning.

    We can also discuss the differences of your thought and reasoning and that of Usama Hasan also.
  2. Muhammad Ali

    Muhammad Ali Veteran

    MASHALLAH Brother KattarSunni has cleared things up. Just for your information Mr Ghulam, I am not calling anyone a Kafir, the Ulema have said such a person is a Kafir. Has he committed Kufar? Yes but I am not calling him a Kafir but Ulema are!
  3. can you please explain and elucidate so i know what you are saying exactly before i reply to you.
    for example, what is wrong with ghaus e azam helping prophets and that he may be no less than a prophet in every sift and wasf?? we can't have hit and miss and then do runner!
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 10, 2011
  4. kattarsunni

    kattarsunni Veteran

    Irfan Shah: be adabi

    Other Ulama: kufr

    be adabi for Anbiya= Kufr

    Therefore Irfan Shah is also saying it is kufr!

    Ghulam e Ghaus Sahib 2 questions: Is not your reasoning in on of te earlier posts similar to the reasoning of Usama Hasan justifying his comments about the origins of Sayyiduna Adam alayhisalam?

    Q2: Can you please provide a reference to Sh AbdulQadir Jilani radiyAllahu anhu helping the Anbiya?

  5. you should do tauba and make ruju' because you have become a kafir by calling a muslim a kafir. you are the only one mentioning names and framing questions to mislead ulama. make tauba other wise you will remain a kafir.
  6. Muhammad Ali

    Muhammad Ali Veteran

    Since know one here is giving you importance, I will do the same, anyone will follow these Ulema above homemade scholars like yourself. Again I repeat tell mowlana zahid hussain to come out from the hiding and defend himself. You hold no importance above these Ulema!

  7. what kind of silly arguement is that? actually the two scholars you are talking about were born long before the ones you are telling me to listen and these people were bachhay when they were preaching and teaching. so your arguement from age, actaully goes gainst you. your motivation is your animosity because of some personal experience!!! and monthly payment.
  8. by the way, there is a whole lecture delivered on TV about a year ago by Hujjat al-Islam Syed zahid Hussain al-Bukhari al-ridawi in which he argues that all the Prophets of Allah are infallible and hazrat Adam(a) did not commit a sin or error because Allah says in the Qur'an that Adam(a) had no intention of doing wrong.
    also he argues that some ahl al-sunna held the believe that Prophets can commit minor sins but He argues that this is also incorrect. the Prophets of Allah can neither commit major nor minor sins.
  9. you have serious comprehension propblem. like i said earlier, your nature is making you do these things and nature cannot be changed.

    however, all those questions are framed by you to get an answer that suits you by misrepresenting them.

    I have provided evidence for you above and my guess is that these people either misunderstood the idea or have not read those refernces that I have given you. it is very easy to obatain a fatwa against anyone.
    i can easily ask a question and say mufti x says that alahazrat or mufti naeemi, or owaisi sahib, etc are beadab or gustakh. one can even declare mian mohammed bakhsh a kafir by asking a question that if somone says that ghaus al-azam is no less than prophets in every quality and attribute...refernces have been given a few pages earlier.

    what you need to comprehend is that mawlana irfan shah sahib says it be-adabi and other mawlanas say it is kufr etc. though those are framed and incorrect representation of the questions.

    my question to you is this from your own clips:

    irfan shah says it is beadabi and some others say it is kufr. but which one is it? i have provide refernces earlier and if you still do not comprehend directly then it makes you a kafir by calling a muslim a kafir.
    according to the above, al-tabari, suyuti, and imaz razi would also be kafir, if you we follow your b-s**t.
  10. Muhammad Ali

    Muhammad Ali Veteran

    Brother Ghulam e Ghous the Imams you are naming, don't you think these Scholars know about them? I don't think you were born when these Scholars were teaching and studying the books you are naming today. You are trying to defend a Molvi who has committed Kufar as these Ulema have said, rather than letting the Molvi come out and defend himself, you are defending him! I can understand why no one is giving you or your posts any importance, rather than you defending them, tell him to defend themself!

    Hazrat Munazir e Islam Allama Peer Syed Irfan Shah Sahib Mashadi Sahib were asked the same question yesterday and I am giving the link to their answer. I think most of us will be satisfied with Shah Sahibs Answer.

    Pir Syed Irfan Shah on Kufar Statement of Mufti Zahid Hussain Rizvi

    Here is one final video, with new additions and views by Mufti Muhammad Aslam Bandialvi Sahib and Allama Syed Zafrullah Shah Sahib.

    Mufti Muhammad Aslam Bandialvi on Mufti Zahid Hussain Rizvi Kufar Statement

    Sayyid Zafrullah Shah Sahib Mufti Zahid Hussain Must Do Touba!

    The Kufar of Mufti Zahid Hussain Rizvi & Scholars of Ahlus Sunnah (Complete).

    In this video the following Ulema have said Mufti Sahib need to do Toubah and Ruju:

    Pir Syed Irfan Shah Sahib Mashadi
    Mufti Yaar Muhammad Qadri Sahib
    Mufti Aslam Bandialvi Sahib
    Mufti Munir Azhari Sahib
    Alama Misbahul Malik Luqmanvi Sahib
    Allama Syed Zafrullah Shah Sahib

    Everyone can decide for themselves. My final advice for you Brother Ghulam e Ghous, rather than you defending Moulana Sahib, tell them to come out from the hiding and clear their position themselves. I did have some respect for them before this video was uploaded on the net, I don't think anyone should or will give him any importance whats so ever now until he doesn't do Ruju and repent from his Kufar.
  11. In Surah al-Rum, Allah(s) says that "It is He Who brings out the living from the dead and brings out the dead from the living"
    in the commentry to this verse sahaba have said, as stated previously, that it means bringing kafir out of momin, etc.

    Imam Ibn Jarir al-tabari, Imam jalal al-Din suyuti, for example, report the following:
    قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم: لما خلق الله آدم عليه السلام أخرج
    ذريته فقبض قبضة بيمينه فقال: هؤلاء أهل الجنة ولا أبالي، وقبض بالأخرى

    قبضة فجاء فيها كل رديء فقال: هؤلاء أهل النار ولا أبالي، فخلط بعضهم ببعض
    فيخرج الكافر من المؤمن ويخرج المؤمن من الكافر

    Rasul Allah(s) said that when Allah(s) created Adam, He took out from Adam's right his descendents and said these are people of paradise, then He(s) took out from Adam's left his descendents and said these are the people of hell then He(s) mixed them up hence took out kafir from momin and momin from kafir!!

    Imam al-Razi states in the tafsir of the above verse:
    يخرج المؤمن من الكافر كإبراهيم من آزر، والكافر من المؤمن مثل كنعان من نوح عليه السلام

    mufassirun have also explained that taking momin out from the kafir and kafir from momin is like taking out Ibrahim(a) from Azar and Kin'an from Nuh(a). here we have being taken out from the Prophet.
    so the kufr coming out of Adam is like the above that Adam was not a cause of this kufr.
    Mufti ahmed yar khan in his tafsir naeemi says: "hirs aur tama' se bacho ke isne Adam ko jannat se nikala"
    refrain from GREED and AVIDITY because it ejected Adam from the paradise!!!
    here we have hakim al-ummat saying that Adam had greed and avidity, the cause of his ejection...ask a question for this???
  12. Sorry about the presentation of the main post, i will try and re-do it.
  13. we should follow Imam Ibn Jarir tabari, Imam Suyuti, Imam Razi and not those who have been fed framed questions. anyone can frame a question. what the imams have said and reported is the same reasoning.. for instance, Imam Razi says that Kafir coming out of Momin is like Kin'an coming out of Nuh(a).
    I am nor even addressing you. you are majbur by your nature. one can change habits but not nature.
  14. Muhammad Ali

    Muhammad Ali Veteran

    Ghulam e Ghous should we follow these top Sunni Muftis & Scholars of Ahlus Sunnah or should we follow a homemade mufti?

  15. [FONT="Book Antiqua","serif"]In
    Surah Rum 19:27<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p></o:p>[/FONT]

    [FONT="Book Antiqua","serif"]Allah(S)
    It is He Who brings out the living

    from the dead, and brings out the dead from the living[/FONT]

    [FONT="Book Antiqua","serif"]in
    the tafsir of the above verse as mentioned previously that according to
    Sahaba it means bringing Momin from Kafir and Kafir from Momin , for example, Imam
    Ibn Jarir al-tabari and Imam jalal al-din al-suyuti report the following:<o:p></o:p>[/FONT]

    [FONT="Book Antiqua","serif"]Rasul Allah(s) said that when Allah created
    Adam(a), He(s) took out from Adam’s right his descendents and said these are
    the people of paradise and then He(s) took out from Adam’s left his descendents
    and said these are the people of hell. Then Allah(s) mixed them up hence Kafir
    came from Momin and Momin came from Kafir.[/FONT]
    [FONT="Book Antiqua","serif"]

    [FONT="Book Antiqua","serif"]Imam Fakhr al-Din al-Razi
    says in the tafsir of the above ayah:<o:p></o:p>[/FONT]

    [FONT="Book Antiqua","serif"]Mufassirun explained as one
    of its tafsir that the meaning of ‘Momin coming out of Kafir’ means like
    Ibrahim (a) coming out of Azar and the meaning of Kafir coming out of Momin
    like kin’an coming out of Nuh(a). Here we have kafir who has kufr coming out of
    Hazrat Nuh(a).<o:p></o:p>[/FONT]

    [FONT="Book Antiqua","serif"]So kufr coming out of
    Adam(a) is like the above and not that Adam(a) is the cause of kufr.<o:p></o:p>[/FONT]

    [FONT="Book Antiqua","serif"]What is serious is that
    mufti ahmed yar khan sahib says in his tafsir naeemi that ‘hirs aur tama’ se
    bacho ke isne Adam ko jannat se nikal diya’
    refrain from greed and avidity because it ejected Adam from paradise!!!<o:p></o:p>[/FONT]

  16. Muhammad Ali

    Muhammad Ali Veteran

  17. Dawud

    Dawud New Member

    The Jinn existed on Earth before the creation of Adam and Satan, was the most righteous among them, so much so that he was elevated to a high position amongst the Angels.

    Kufr already existed within the Jinns, why was Iblis brought up to the heavens (before the creation of Hazrat Adam(AS)?

    “The former name of Iblîs was Azâzil. He was one of the guards of Paradise. He was the chief of the angels who were in the sky which was the nearest to the Earth. He was the sultan [ruler] of the earthly sky and the earth itself. He was higher than angels in the grade of knowledge. He was administering the affairs of the part between the sky and the earth. For this reason, he became conceited. This state of his drifted him to disobedience to Allah. Allahu ta’âlâ, in turn, expelled him from His mercy. “(Jâmiul Ahkâm)

    Iblis asked Allah (SWT), "What are you going to give me in return as there was no place on earth where I did not prostrate to you?"

    Before Iblis are you telling us that all Jinns on Earth were righteous?

    Muhammad bin Ishaq reported that Ibn `Abbas said, "Before he undertook the path of sin, Iblis was with the angels and was called `Azazil.' He was among the residents of the earth and was one of the most active worshippers and knowledgeable persons among the angels. This fact caused him to be arrogant. Iblis was from a genus called Jinn.''
  18. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    i seem to have a feeling of deja vu...misbah al hidaya...etc...

    لكل داء دواء يستطب به
    إلا الحماقة أعييت من يداويها

    this thread is soon approaching the low point of exercise in futility.
  19. kattarsunni

    kattarsunni Veteran

    Have it now as it is related to the topic. The question is where did the ruh of Ghawth e Azam help the Anbiya?
  20. brother surayr al-asrar, we will have that discussion later!

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