Pir Abdul Qadir Jillani Attacks Imam Bukhari

Discussion in 'Bickering' started by AbdalQadir, Aug 3, 2009.

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  1. faqir

    faqir Veteran

    the hadith is sahih according to Imam al-Bukhari - and nothing this or that pir says will change that. you have Imam al-Bukhari on one hand and pir saab coming out with all sorts of laughable 'hadith criticism' - who do you think will be correct?
  2. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    anybody with a basic education in hadith or the adab towards hadith will not speak like this. there are so many mistakes in this short clip starting from the citation of the hadith itself. the wording of hadith is:
    awwalu jayshin min ummati yaghzuuna madinata qaysara maghfurun lahum
    the context of this hadith is umm Haram herself and her love for martyrdom, not the baseless accusation made by shah sahib that she traveled to exonerate yazid.

    and the group in which she traveled according to one account is in the year 27/28 AH during the caliphate of sayyiduna 'uthman; some others said that it was in the 'time of mu'awiyah' (ayni adds that it does not necessitate in the caliphate of mu'awiyah). regardless, this 'travel' occurred much before yazid. ubadah passed away in 44 or 45 AH. radiyallahu anhu.

    and where does damascus figure? there is Hims and there is qubrus (cyprus), but where is damascus?

    moreover, where is sayyiduna sa'ad in the picture? [videotime 4:34] sayyidah umm Haram (her name was rumaySaa or ghumaySaa; but some have disputed one or both) was married to ubadah ibn samit who took her on a ship for jihad. none of the rijal books i have seen so far mention the 'divorce'.

    umm Haram was umm sulaym's sister. umm sulaym bint milHan is the mother of anas ibn malik and RasulAllah's sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam wet-nurse according to some muHaddithin. we will see some details later, inshaAllah.

    everything is mixed up in this clip and shah sahib takes liberties to tell what RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam did or did not on his own. as if shah sahib knows the routine of RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam, better than anas ibn malik himself.

    the hadith cited in this hapless talk simply does not have the mention of lice; actually, it is in another hadith (yeah, shah sahib assertion that umm haram's narration is in ONLY ONE hadith is baseless. there are at least 7 places in bukhari where a similar/related narration is found.)

    remember, that we know about RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam as his companions narrated to us and cannot be rejected merely on the whims of people 14 centuries later.

    it is our responsibility to correct wrong information fed in the name of hadith or its explanation. wa billahi't tawfiq.

    'hadayat' indeed.
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2009
  3. maulanax

    maulanax Active Member

    faqir why dont you analyse the hadith then if you think your a better scholar.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 24, 2009
  4. Sunni Tehreek

    Sunni Tehreek New Member

    INSHALLAH Today Sheikh ul Hadith Alama Hafiz Muhammad Ashraf Qadri who has answered accusations of the Rawafiz http://www.islamieducation.com/ur/تقاریر/allamah-hafiz-ashraf-qadri.html over 40 Speeches online !
    INSHALLAH the shaykh will speak on this issue and also speak on the issue of the Sahabiya Pir Sahib Attacked. It will be online here as soon as possible. Also INSHALLAH he will prove Imam Bukhari had love for the Ahlebait and took hadith of them.

    Last edited: Jul 24, 2009
  5. faqir

    faqir Veteran

    Interpretation is one thing... but weakening the hadith based on attacking one of the Prophet's aunts and the dabt of two of its narrators is ridiculous.
  6. maulanax

    maulanax Active Member

    here is what a recent scholar has to say about the hadith: (cant see any attack on imam bukhari though)

    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]SUPPORTERS OF YAZID [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The people who support and love Yazid present a Hadith that is noted by Imam Bukhari; they attempt to prove that Yazid was a noble and pious person and will enter Paradise. With the help of Allah Most High I will show that this Hadith was not written about Yazid, and there is no proof that he will enter Paradise. The narrators of this Hadith were enemies of Imam Husain and his family and they were the supporters of Yazid and his tribe. For that reason the hadith does not provide an unbiased and impartial proof which can be used in Yazid's favour. [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Imam Bukahri writes that the Prophet [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][​IMG][/FONT] (Allah bless him and give him peace) has said that the first group of people from amongst my followers who fights in the battle of Rome (Istanbul) will be granted forgiveness by Allah Most High. When the Muslim fought the battle of Rome in 51 A.H, Yazid bin Mu'awiya was appointed the leader of that Muslim army. In this battle Sayyiduna Abu Ayyub Ansari was also martyred while fighting with the Unbelievers. [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Bukahri Kitabul Jihad chapter Room [/FONT]​
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]This Hadith was for the people who would willingly go to Jihad (war) and were prepared to sacrifice their lives for the sake of Allah Most High. It was not for the people who were be sent by force to participate in that battle. Yazid did not participate in that battle willingly, he was sent to fight by forceby Amir Mu'awiya. Some scholars maintain that this Hadith applies only to those who have not committed any kind of sin which would otherwise prevent them from entering Paradise. [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Allahma Ibn Atheer writes that in the 50 Hijra, Sayyiduna Amir Mu'awiya, may Allah Most High be pleased with him, sent an army to Rome and appointed Sufyan bin Au'f as leader of the army and he also ordered his son Yazid to go with the army. Yazid did not obey Amir Mu'awiya and said that he was feeling ill; Amir accepted this excuse and said that he should not go as he was ill. During the war soldiers fell ill due to food shortages. When Yazid heard of this he stated that he had no concern for the plight of the soldiers of Islam, when he was able to enjoy the comforts of his home with his beautiful wife, Umea Kulsum. When Amir Mu'awiya heard what Yazid had said, he called Yazid and ordered him to go where the army was so that he could experience the suffering of the soldiers of Islam. Amir sent a small army of people with him; this small army consisted of many pious people, including Sayyiduna Ibn Abbas, Sayyiduna Ibn Umar, Sayyiduna Ibn Zubair, Sayyiduna Abu Ayyub Ansari, and a other pious people; eventually they reached Istanbul, and fought in the battle. [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][Tareek-Eh-Kamil Ibn Atheer chapter on government of Amir Mu'awiya stories of the 50 Hijra][/FONT]​
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]This hadith clearly shows that Yazid did not join the army of Mulsims voluntarily, but he was sent by force. Thus how can it be claimed that he will be rewarded with Paradise? [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Their first narrator's name is Yahya bin Hamza. Hafiz Ibn Hajar Asqlani writes that Imam Mu'een says he was a Qaddri (from a misled sect). Imam Aajiri says I asked Abu Dawud whether Yahya bin Hamza was a Qaddri and he confirmed that he was.. [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][Tahzeeb ut-Tahzeeb - biography of Yahya bin Hamza] [/FONT]​
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The second narrator's name is Thur bin Yazid Kelai Himsi. Hafiz Ibn Hajar Asqlani writes that Imam Ibn Sa'd said he was a Qaddri, and his grandfather was killed in the war of Siffeen fighting for Amir Mu'awiya. Whenever Thur used to talk about Sayyiduna Ali he used to say that he did not like the person who killed my grandfather. Uthman Darmee notes that he had not seen a person like him who was suspected of being a Qaddri. Ahmed bin Saleh narrated the narration from the people of Syria that Thur was a Qaddri. Imam Uzai used also to say bad things about him. Imam Ibn Hamble says that Thur bin Yazid was a Qaddree. Imam Ibn Mu'een says that Maqhul was Qaddri and later repented, but Thur bin Yazid never repented and remined a Qaddri. Aajiri says that he was a Qaddri and he was exiled from his town. Regarding the second narrator Hafiz Abdur Rahman Ibn Hatim says that Abdullah bin Ahmed Humble says that my father Ahmed Ibn Humble used to say that Thur bin Yazid was a Qaddri. Tahribut Tahzeeb biography of Soar bin Yazid. Imam Dhahbi writes that Imam Ibn Humble said that Thur bin Yazid was a Qaddri and the people from his town threw him out. Abdullah bin Salim says that the people of Hamas threw Thur out his town and set fire to his house because he used to talk against the faith. [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Mizanul A'tidal biography Thur bin Yazid by Imam Zahbee. [/FONT]​
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]We can see that the narrators explaining this narration are from a misled sect and thus was the enemy of Sayyiduna Ali and a firm supporter of Yazid. How then can this narration be used as evidence that Yazid will be granted Paradise? [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]After reading about Yazid no one can say that Imam Husain should not have opposed Yazid. No one can dare say that Yazid was a righteous and pious person, and that Allah Most High was pleased with him. No one can say that Imam Husain should have given his hand in the hands of Yazid and accept him as the true ruler of the Muslims. Only a person who is against our Prophet's family can make such claim. [/FONT]
  7. maulanax

    maulanax Active Member

    many people have proved that this hadith does not refer to yazeed but none of the ulama have gone and attacked imam bukhari about it. shah ji is trying to prove that imam bukhari has a likening for yazeed.
  8. faqir

    faqir Veteran

    salam `alaikum

    i am struggling somewhat to understand his speech as the urdu is a bit tough in places....

    Is this the hadith he is referring to and is the narrator he keeps talking about Umm Haram bint Milhan the sahabiya and aunt of the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam?

    Narrated Khalid bin Madan:

    That 'Umair bin Al-Aswad Al-Anasi told him that he went to 'Ubada bin As-Samit while he was staying in his house at the seashore of Hims with (his wife) Um Haram. 'Umair said. Um Haram informed us that she heard the Prophet saying, "Paradise is granted to the first batch of my followers who will undertake a naval expedition." Um Haram added, I said, 'O Allah's Apostle! Will I be amongst them?' He replied, 'You are amongst them.' The Prophet then said, 'the first army amongst' my followers who will invade Caesar's City will be forgiven their sins.' I asked, 'Will I be one of them, O Allah's Apostle?' He replied in the negative."

    Fath al-Bari:


    jazakumAllahu khayran
  9. tazkiyya2003

    tazkiyya2003 Active Member

    The true sunnis love sunni scholarship in its entirety
    and love ahlul bayt.

    Like shaykh yusuf nabhani etc

    This video makes one wary of pirs in the uk.
    It might be nice for someone like shaykh munawwar ateeq ridawi to comment.
    He is a scholar who is well versed from the uk, and he has also studied in Shaam sharif.
  10. Wadood

    Wadood Veteran

    From 'mufakkire islam's' criticism of Umme-who? he mentions the hadith of her seeing lice when RasulAllah salAllaho alaihi wa alihi wa sallam entered. And that RasulAllah did never enter to see non-mahram women. subhanAllah, I have heard only twelver shia in Iran/Iraq use this hadith to ridicule Imam al-Bukhari raDyAllahu anhu. I have never seen ANY Sunni Iranian/Turkish/Arab/Afghan scholar ever do this.

    Did anyone notice the sarcasm this 'pir' was using there? I know this Sahih Hadith in Sahih Bukhari. Look at the way he is discrediting her. I am in shock.

    Look at the dumb fools sitting in front doing subhanAllah. And then this 'pir' is then talking about ulama and juhala.

    Is this hidaya?
  11. Wadood

    Wadood Veteran

    tell me one thing please.

    Why does he have a face of disgust when mentioning the so called work that Imam al-Bukhari raDyAllahu anhu did 'against' the ahl al-bayt? astaghfirulAllah

    What has gone wrong with the Sunnis of Pakistan in the UK? Or does this happen in Pakistan too? I don't know. In Iran/Afghanistan, we would not even dare think of such a thing.
  12. sahebju

    sahebju New Member

    imam bukhari rh

    dear brothers
    what i have seen in the video i couldnt beleive
    however a small request
    instead of wasting time on commenting , it would be better if, to collect and write all the hadiths describing fadail of ahlebait in bukhari
    i request learned person , plz plz collect the hadiths in bukhari and publish
    which will be a great tribute to imam bukhari rh
    with regards
  13. Abu Ibraheem

    Abu Ibraheem Guest

    Refer to al-aqidah ut-Tahaawiyah, the point where the Imam speaks of those who speak bad of the scholars, the jurists, the people of hadith etc.
    The conclusion is most befitting. Blessings be upon Bukharis grave.
  14. Wadood

    Wadood Veteran

    I believe this is exactly what happened with deoband. Initially, Deoband was a Sunni seminary, but some mullas had to deseminate something among the populace, and all of a sudden, the Sunni masses broke, and outcame division until today.

    This is exactly what happened in Khurasan right after Shaykh Abdul Qadir Jaylani raDyAllahu anhu's passing away, and right before the Mongol Holocaust. But the punishment was severe comparitively. What did the Mongols do to Khurasan? They massacred it. Genghis Khan, "I am the Punishment of Allah on you" (to the 'ulama' in Bukhara's Main Mosque).
  15. maulanax

    maulanax Active Member

    brother muhammadi by attacking ST you cant exactly prove that whatever shah ji has said in this video is right. i think you should analyse what has been said in the video.
  16. Wadood

    Wadood Veteran

    Sidi tazkiyya, its nice to see you after a long time, welcome
  17. Sunni Tehreek

    Sunni Tehreek New Member

    You know whats the funny thing, this is from the video Yanabi Team (Tahir Riaz) uploaded check his videos, you will find it in the first part regarding Yazeed !

    Don't Blame me, Anyone Who Abuses Sahaba or Awliya I will Rip him APART !

    Last edited: Jul 24, 2009
  18. tazkiyya2003

    tazkiyya2003 Active Member


    After this qawl from pir abdal qadir,
    do you think anyone of ahlul ilm will every take him seriously, after such
    an attack on imaam al muhaditheen?
  19. Muhammadi

    Muhammadi Well-Known Member

  20. maulanax

    maulanax Active Member

    after closley watching the video it seems that shah ji was being completely unfair to imam bukhari as if he purposely wrote hadiths on yazeed to degrade the ahlebait and shah ji is completely and utterly wrong whre he says that imam bukhari has treated the ahle bait like his "step mother", i belive many many ulama have read imam bukharis books but no 1 before shah ji has ever said this about him.
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