takfir of deobandis

Discussion in 'Bickering' started by Ahmad Yaar, Oct 15, 2013.

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  1. kattarsunni

    kattarsunni Veteran

    There is no need for these people to insult Maulana Ilyas Qadri. It seems Maulana Ilyas Qadri did not misquote Fatawa Ridwiyya.
     
  2. Madani

    Madani Active Member

  3. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    perhaps, these two pages can be explained by those people speaking in the video:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    when i saw this video for the first time i was troubled until i showed it to a, well, a 'kattarridawi' friend of mine (farig from ashrafiya) and he refused point blank that this could be the voice of mawlana ilyas qadri.
     
  5. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    someone asked:
    ---
    ta'wil is not acceptable in cases of explicit insults.

    if it is a generic question, it depends on the statement that he seeks to justify or make ta'wil. if you are asking about the specific case of deobandi elders, if any native urdu speaker tries to justify those blasphemies upon which alahazrat made takfir, i cannot consider such a person as a muslim.

    ---
    secondly, my point was about "respecting blasphemers, with a ta'wil" or "abstaining from takfir of these blasphemers with a ta'wil".

    for example, a majority of common people in the tabligh jamaat are not even aware of these issues. and when told, they still hesitate with the ta'wil: "perhaps they did not say this, perhaps they said something else" and so forth. i have heard people deny that devbandi elders have said such things and that all this was forged by enemies. common people do not wish to get involved at all - and say that it is beyond their comprehension and they do not wish to even talk about it.

    being a native urdu speaker myself, i can empathise with ordinary people in our time who are flummoxed with the archaic and complex sentence structure (of barahin, hifzul-iman and tahzir). particularly in south india, where a majority cannot read urdu, although it is spoken widely by muslims there. if such people claim they are unable to decide whether these statements are disrespectful, it is difficult to not admit their excuse.

    non-urdu speakers, in the west or among arabs, abstaining from takfir with the ta'wil: "perhaps alahazrat made a mistake" "perhaps the devbandi explanation is the accurate one" "nobody can say such things, and already khalil ahmed has disavowed it in muhannad" and so forth. here too, it is difficult to make takfir of such people.

    there is no evidence that imam kawthari was aware of such statements and radd of sunni ulama, before he praised thanwi and others in his maqalat. thus, if someone hesitates - basing his judgement on imam kawthari: "kawthari praised thanawi" or "the sanad of many scholars in shaam al-sharif goes through deobandis, and therefore they could not be kafirs..."

    the rule: "he who doubts in his kufr is also a kafir" applies only where people are aware, they acknowledge that someone has been disrespectful and still do not consider such a person as kafir.

    ----
    if one emphatically rejects the statements of devbandis and deems them disrespectful, but still abstains from takfir by doing ta'wil of those statements, it is pending examination and depends on the ta'wil he makes.

    because alahazrat says about nasir tusi: "that he used to make ta'wil of the kufr of his elders and where he couldn't manage [a plausible ta'wil] he rejected those statements". [fatawa ridawiyyah 21/220]

    ----
    Allah ta'ala knows best.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2013
  6. kattarsunni

    kattarsunni Veteran

    Mufti Akhtar Rida is a scholar and has valid points.

    The so called 'Ridwi' clan who proclaim to follow him are going too far. Why are they making Maulana Ilyas Qadri like a person of innovation when he has changed his opinion on an issue of furu'? I'm sure video filming falls under the category of ijtihad and not under consensus.

    Like the guy in this video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=FeB2T3puXoU&NR=1
     
  7. chisti-raza

    chisti-raza Veteran

    This is who Ala Hazrat considered to be Deobandi in the true sense. So when scholars speak of Deobandis this is the group that they are referring to. Mufti Shariful Haqq explained it very well.
     
  8. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    we do not consider all wahabis as kafir, nor all devbandis as kafir. only those who disrespect RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam and those who knowingly respect them (without ta'wil - as there is ikhtilaf on takfir of mut'awwil) and agree with their disrespect as kafir.

    regardless, calling one a wahabi unjustly does not make the caller a wahabi automatically - nor does it necessitate tajdid iman or nikah. tawbah, is necessary of course.

    Allah ta'ala knows best.
     
  9. ghulam-e-raza

    ghulam-e-raza Well-Known Member

  10. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

  11. Madani

    Madani Active Member

    Description under second video

    "Dawat-e-Islami exposed by: Nawasa-e-Mufti-e-Aazam,
    HUZUR JAMALUL ULEMAH,
    JANASHEEN E MUFTI-E-AAZAM.
    HAZRAT JAMAL RAZA KHAN SAHAB QADRI, BARKATI, RAZVI, NOORI.
    DETAILS:
    Since last 20 years Hazrat kept silence regarding DAWAT-E-ISLAMI, but never ever favoured them because they never refute WAHABIES AND DEOBANDIS.

    HAZRAT HELPED THEM WHEN EVER THEY NEEDED HELP AND DID NOT STOP ANY OF HIS disciple OR FOLLOWER NOT TO GO IN THEIR ISLAMIC GATHERING ETC...

    But when Hazrat heard such clips in which ilyas attar has said.

    1. ALCOHOL IS PURE (PAK)
    2, SPIRIT IS ALLOWED (JAIZ) TO USE.
    3. IN AHERAM YOU CAN APPLY PERFUMED SOAPS ETC...
    4. WOMEN CAN WEAR ORNAMENTS OTHER THEN GOLD AND SILVER WHICH WILL NOT MAKE THE SALLAH VOID.
    5. BLAME ON AALA HAZRAT ... (WHICH IS IN THE NEXT VIDEO)
    ETC....ETC...ETC.

    SUCH temper in the SHARIAAH, which made HAZRAT ANNOY.

    THEN HAZRAT INQUIRED FOR AN ANSWER FROM THEIR REPRESENTATIVES BUT NO ONE COULD PROVIDE A PROPER ANSWER.............

    SO AFTER WAITING FOR A LONG PERIOD OF 5 MONTHS HAZRAT HAS TO OPEN HIS TONGUE AGAINTS DAWAT-E-ISLAMI.

    WE GIVE OPEN CHALLENGE TO WHOLE DAWAT-E-ISLAMI (ILYASI) TO PROVIDE US A VALID ANSWER TO THE ABOVE MATTER.

    STILL THEIR IS TIME THAT YOU PEOPLE OF DAWAT E ISLAMI REPENT FROM WHAT EVER YOUR AMEER HAS SAID AND TELL HIM TO ASK FORGIVENESS FROM ALLAH AND HUZUR SALALAHOLAYEHWASSALAM,

    AND KEEP ONE THING IN MIND WE ARE NOT AT ALL INTERESTED IN WHAT EVER YOU PEOPLE ARE DOING ON T.V.

    IT'S ALL YOUR DEEDS....YOU PEOPLE ARE NOT OUR GUIDES AND MASTERS...

    YOU HAVE NO STATUS IN OUR MIND, NEITHER WE FOLLOW YOU.

    BUT IF YOU PEOPLE TEMPER THE SHARIAAH THEN WE WILL SURELY REFUTE YOU AND EXPOSE YOU.

    INSHALLAH.

    IF STILL YOU HAVE LITTLE FAITH THEN DO TAUBAH AND COME ON THE RIGHT TRACK AS YOU WERE BEFORE.

    NOW ONLY SHOW OFF IS THEIR WITH YOU PEOPLE AND NOTHING IS LEFT.

    I HOPE YOU GOT WHAT EVER MY MURSHEED WANTED TO SAY.

    THESE ARE WORDS OF SUCH A PERSONALITY WHO HAS BEEN GIVEN TRAINING BY HUZUR MUFTIAAZAM E HIND.

    WHOS CHILDHOOD WAS SPENT UNDER THE SUPREME VISION OF HUZUR MUFTIAAZAM E HIND. (Radiallaho tala anho)

    SO WHEN SUCH PERSONALITY IS SAYING SOMETHING FROM THE DESK OF AALA HAZRAT (BAREILLY SHARIF)

    THEN WE MUST THINK TWICE BEFORE WE DO ANYTHING NOW.

    I HOPE THIS MESSAGE OF TRUTH WILL REACH MAXIMUM NUMBER OF PEOPLE.

    MAY ALLAH GUIDE US TO THE STRAIGHT PATH.

    AMEEN."

    Surely Sunni's have better things to do
     
  12. Madani

    Madani Active Member

    same old stuff bro.
     
  13. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dE8PcwfZyI&feature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibF29DoItEI&feature=related

    Can someone please just tell me what's going on between the scholar or scholars of Bareilly and Dawate Islami?

    Is there a genuine tension and do they have genuine issues between each other, or just some jahil mureeds from either or both sides puffing hot air?

    I'm not interested in bickering or taking sides of right or wrong. Just would like to know what exactly is going on and what are the different sides different reasons for it. I am unaware.
     

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