They call this "sama"

Discussion in 'Bickering' started by Wadood, Sep 2, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Draft saved Draft deleted
  1. Wadood

    Wadood Veteran

    abdal qadir take your posts to a new thread. I believe what abu hasan had said was enough and after that post of his, this thread should be locked.
  2. Abu Fadl

    Abu Fadl Banned

    post edited and included in the above
  3. Abu Fadl

    Abu Fadl Banned

    This is the problem with some of the people here, they lack consistency at all levels. No one is defending Tahir ul Qadri's actions but what is not acceptable is making him a target or even scapegoat. If Dr Tahir does something, then everyone goes crazy targetting him, even if it is the smallest of things but if others do it then they there is a silence or they are defended. That shows insincerity and a lack of genuineness.

    I do not think it was a meeting just to show that we have links like the deobandis do but there is a sharing of ideas between the two camps to some extent as shown by AbdulQadir. (Shaikh Nazim calls Dr Tahir the most famous (or best) scholar in the world)

    I have seen videos of the Haqqanis with males and females holding hands in a circle ring. Dr Tahir never goes as far as that.

    What's happened to yaseen now?

    Shah Turab-ul-Haq Sahib of Pakistan says Shaykh Nazim is misguided.

    (that's just to open your eyes)
  4. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    fair enough but for those who want to bring others into this, don't. the thread is about tahir ul qadri and the youtube clips.
  5. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    akhi, I only mentioned the other two because one way or another, they were dragged into the thread and somehow a connection and relevance was drawn, both to the topic at hand (corrupted tasawwuf) and the personalities concerned

    i survived without mentioning them thus far

    as for Ramadan, personally, i think it's a perfect time to remind people of the tenets of Ahlus Sunnah and to stay away from what ever is not Ahlus Sunnah
  6. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    abdalqadir, shall we stick with tahir ul qadri in this thread? personally, i think in ramadan, these things can wait, but if you must, then please do not digress.
  7. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    These are from a murid's website and attributed to him. Other murids of his have defended what is said here regarding "general amnesty":
    (bold and underlinings are mine)

    If anyone can comment on the scriptural proofs for the concept of effigy burning in the hereafter, please educate me.

    This bit squarely opposes the Quranic beliefs. Besides, the word is 'everlasting', not 'eternal'.

    Sadly, the people who point out the diametric opposition of such heretical batini beliefs to the Quran and the 'aqaid of the Ahlus Sunnah are termed as khawarij and wahabis by murids of these people.

    They are given hogwash that haqiqah is different from shari'ah. Ironically, the Naqshbandi scholars, along with Mujaddid Alf Thaani rahimahumullah, have been the greatest proponents of the fact that in no way shape or form can any aspect of tasawwuf or the sheikhs teachings oppose the shari'ah and there is no haqiqah that clashes with the shari'ah.

    Stupid heretics on the internet will gleefully trash the ahbash and the murabitun, but make a sudden about face the second nazim haqqani and his disciples are mentioned because they believe it is celebrity status and popularity that validates what ever comes out of a person's mouth.

    Gone are the days when men were weighed in the scales of the truth.

    Of the [non-wahabi] people, popular on the internet and in the west, who may be Sunnis or Sunni claimants, the ahbash* are the only one's who have spoken fearlessly against the corrupted teachings of nazim al-qubrusi and hisham kabbani. As for the wahabis spreading hatred of tasawwuf and Sunni-ism on the net, no source have they used more than this lot, in order to fuel their campaign of hate against Sufi-ism and also the noble and pristine Naqshbandi tariqa.

    Sadly, people will resort to emotional blackmail with comments like "do we really need to take what the ahbash say seriously?" rather than looking at WHAT IS SAID AND WHY?

    Emotional blackmail, popularity, and celebrity status will replace reasoning, and the principles of the Shari'ah and the 'aqaid of the Ahlus Sunnah.

    Anyways, for those interested, here is a detailed expose on him by the ahbash posted on a Turkish forum:

    You might think the ahbash have flawed understandings of the principles of the shari'a or that they have blown things up or taken out of context etc. and that may be fair on your part to doubt them.

    Have a look of the books of nazim al-qubrusi and hisham kabbani that they have referenced in the end and read them for yourselves to make up your own minds.


    Some things are also mentioned in Turkish on a different thread by a Turkish poster (who may or may not be habashi), that unfortunately I do not have the time to translate.

    A quick one though, according to the poster, nazim haqqani believes that awliyaa can see the entirety of men and women's bodies ... kind of like x-ray vision... for good purposes of course.



    1) I am neither a habashi nor an admirer of theirs. I just believe if one sufi claimant can be held to scrutiny and criticized if proven wrong in light of the Shari'ah, the same should apply to others too. I do believe the ahbash are objective and right in many aspects, if not all, in regards to their opinion of him, based on what I know otherwise from living in Turkish Cyprus (his home country).

    2) My opinion of nazim al-qubrusi is formed from personally reading one of his books in the pre-internet era (pre 1995). It was published in 1988 from the UK. Sadly that particular copy of Mercy Oceans is not available on the net, something that is the sole source of knowledge for a lot of people in current times. It was full of nostradamus style predictions, which were either generic like horoscope pages in a newspaper or proven to be utterly incorrect (one of them being the state of israel won't make it to 2000 or another year that has passed) and rubbish claims with no basis in the Shari'ah as scholars advised me (one of which was meeting Imam Mehdi "spiritually" and taking the bay'ah at his hands).

    3) A VERY SENIOR Sunni 'alim from the subcontinent that no one on this forum can consider a non-Sunni (a public figure) who I prefer not to name here, whom I have asked personally, has confirmed that these people indeed ARE misguided and people who like to promote the concept of all religions being same. hisham kabbani's gatherings are riddled with implications like "Muslims and nonMuslims are equal" and "all faiths are the same" and so on. This particular 'alim has called them as open puppets of American politicians.

    4) It is not just the ahbash who have a problem with him. There are Turkish Sunnis who are ALSO Naqshbandis, who have not even heard of the ahbash, who consider this lot to be severely misguided and corrupting Sunni-ism and tasawwuf.

    [Sadly, there is only a few personalities and organizations, who are either real Sunnis or claimants, that are popular and well known on the internet and in the west.

    A LOT of REAL SUNNI shuyukh from India, Pakistan, Turkey, Morocco, Syria etc. are 'silent achievers' and have helped a large number of people too in the cause of Sunni-ism and Sufi-ism , however, they are not popular as the few celebrities popularly known on the internet and in the west.]

    5) If someone has doctored stuff and made it look like nazim al-qubrusi's or flogged falsehood in his name, he is answerable to Allah, and of course nazim al-qubrusi is free of the charges. However, hisham kabbani's inconsistencies are far too many to ignore and it doesn't appear like he is being framed to appear as such, not that the former's inconsistencies are any less. Anyway, I am only going by the apparent.
  8. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    To the best of my knowledge, it was the absolute apostate* gohar shahi, who claimed to have met JESUS in a hotel room in the United States:

    See here:

    * unless he repented and became a Muslim.

    In case any one doesn't know him, here's a glimpse of what this khabeeth mardood was all about:


    From their official website** (you don't need to look very hard or consult a mufti to see the apostasy):


    ** The people on the below site claim the website is run by an insincere man who doesnt represent the true message of gohahr shahi.

    Well this is what the other official site (also) says are the teachings of this kafir murtad mutlaq (unless he repented and became a Muslim before his death):

    Have a read of this thread if you have time, some readers comments are interesting:


    Here's quotes from the wikipedia articles I linked above (bold and underline by me):

    This is the video they have cited as reference # 4:

    From the simple wikipedia link:

    reference 6 is a photo showing hisham kabbani sitting at the feet of gohar shahi


    I realise wikipedia is not an evidence for anything.

    So, can hisham kabbani release an official statement that he considers gohar shahi an apostate and clarify his position on the video and the picture mentioned on the internet?

    Is it possible to get a similar declaration from tahirul qadri and nazim haqqani's spokespersons that they have nothing to do for this man and are wrongly attributed to him and consider him a misguided apostate?
  9. faqir

    faqir Veteran

    lol i couldn't tell if that was break-dancing or an attempt at some bollywood bhangra style dance hehehehe
  10. sAo1
    it does. but it is clear that the good prof. is himself involved as has been amply demonstrated time and again. he is another person who loves to blow his own trumpet.
    if something happens inspite of him then he would be blameless but when he is seen encouraging it?
  11. SA01

    SA01 Veteran

    Does this statement then not apply to Professor Sahib as well???

  12. :s1:

    sidi chishti, please provide evidence that the aqidah of Mawlana Shaykh Nazim is "weird" and which "sets them apart from Ahlus Sunnah". Shaykh Kabbani's Encyclopedia of Islamic Doctrine is enough evidence of the paucity of your claims. Also prove that Shaykh said he met Imam Mahdi in a hotel room--secondly, can you prove the Shaykh has NOT met him in the spiritual realm? Yes, Shaykh has said he has met him spiritually. How is that against Ahlus Sunnah doctrine? Thirdly, where has Shaykh Nazim/Shaykh Kabbani said Iblis will eventually go to jannah? Though Sufis like Ibn Arabi has discussed whether Huzoor's mercy extends to Iblis or not...

    About the music of the Haqqanis can you show where Shaykh Nazim has been involved in a mehfil full of Muslims where there has been music other than the duff and the reed-flute? If certain mureeds of his do wrong things you cannot blame him directly.

    CHISHTI Well-Known Member

    You see NJ you can't pinpoint wrong actions in others and ignore the wrong actions of your own...that's what the deobandis do.

    The haqqanis have gone futher in the field of music than any qawwal..ive seen a full orchestra with women playing violins etc!! The freemixing of the haqqanis is legendary and the wierd aqeeda they spout also sets them apart from the Ahlus when they say iblees will eventually go to jannah!! Also didn't Shaykh Nazim say he met Hazrat Imam Mehdi in a hotel room?...if Prof. Sahib would have said that then you all would have been in a rush to refute him!

    But i fear only Prof. Sahib will be raked over hot coals and others will be left as the qutub shahs of this world forget about all the tribulations facing the ummah only to focus on the tahiri jihaad i akbar!!
  14. nothing that i wrote was baseless

    i was not shouting

    they were not hearsays and rumours they were facts

    i was not spamming the board
  15. mawlana shaykh nazim is a sultaan!
  16. Abu Fadl

    Abu Fadl Banned


    CHISHTI Well-Known Member

    I can feel the ramadhaan love
  18. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    that is another commonly used subterfuge. the deobandis do it all the time.

    find popular sunni scholars around the world, pose for a photo-op and claim that all of these scholars are with them. and thus gain legitimacy for their own agenda.

    when one points out the blunders in his books, an excuse is ready that it was written by a 'committee' and the mistake is not his own.

    anyway, as long as common people are satisfied with pomp and show and remain illiterates and are apathetic towards their own religion, they will continue to be cheated by unscruplous maulvis.

    i don't know much about shaykh nazim, but in this video, the shaykh's humility and simplicity is endearing.

    if one reflects on the shaykh's advice, it is all about forsaking one's own ego and not hankering for glory. i hope tahir sahib was listening (instead of interrupting elders...) and has hopefully learned something.

    astaghfirullah al-'azim.
    wa laa Hawla wa laa quwwata illa billah.
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2009
  19. The Emir

    The Emir Well-Known Member

    Its just a good old knees up in the presence of someone whose actions these days are going as far against mainstream sunnism as possible. any Mufti worth his salt would give a fatwa of 'hara' of these actions. This type of dancing has nothing to do with Islam.
  20. zulfikar

    zulfikar New Member

    abu fadl u really testing my patience!

    what are you trying to prove anyway?you can show us as many videos but we wont change our minds

    tahir will never think of coming to S.A cause without any time wasted will surely welcome by removing our shoes sandals and pelting this foul-mouthed maulvi as happen before.he was disgraced and humiliated so severely that he left in the middle of his lecture and ran for his life
    sight worth seing esp for hitherto great admirers ,mureeds and followers of tahir
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page